Holy Spam in Wanderer's Palace Speed Runs

[Garnatian]

If Holy is such an amazing AOE that it outputs more damage than the 20% of the DPS I'm losing the entire run requiring me to be nothing more than a mana battery for the WHM I feel it's too powerful and needs to be nerfed. White Mage is not a DPS class and shouldn't be used as such. If they are used as a DPS class then adjustments need to be made in my opinion to tone them down so they can be used for healing and not feel they are required to DPS everything to the point of hurting the group.

You're right, it is over-powered, I made a thread about it weeks ago asking for it to be nerfed. There is something fundementally wrong with a Healer having the best AoE DPS ability in the game. It should be made akin to Shadow Flare, damage over time or simply remove the stun.

There's nothing wrong with a Healer DPSing for trivial content. The main reason I play my WHM is because WP Speedruns are fun because they take some effort compared to Tanking it.

[Kinseykinz]

You're right, it is over-powered, I made a thread about it weeks ago asking for it to be nerfed. There is something fundementally wrong with a Healer having the best AoE DPS ability in the game. It should be made akin to Shadow Flare, damage over time or simply remove the stun.

There's nothing wrong with a Healer DPSing for trivial content. The main reason I play my WHM is because WP Speedruns are fun because they take some effort compared to Tanking it.

Except, a SCH can shadowflare at little to no cost to their healing ability as the Fairy will continue to heal during their casting of it, not only that it's not near as long a cast timer, nor is it a spell you'd 'spam'...nor does SCH suffer the same 'MP usage' penality as they have better MP regen tools PLUS Shadowflare costs half as much as Holy to cast. Furthermore, Shadowflare is far more useful overall than Holy.

People need to stop basing a skill's 'Over-powered-ness' on the 3-4 handfuls of times it might actually be the 'most desired' ability to use, and instead look at it overall uses, practicality, and costs.

Now, if people were purposefully stacking WHM's to dps most content, or even key parts of some content...or taking WHM's over DD roles into content as DD's, then you'd maybe have something.

This is NOT however what is happening.

Holy is fine within the context of the game.

[MBTL90]

I usually swiftcast the first holy, that gives me a buffer to keep spamming single target heals if needed, or switch to more holy spam if the tank is still high enough.

[Masta]

If tank is rotating through defensive cd's and popping at the start of dps'ing during pulls then for a whm your rotation is to pop divine seal, one cure 2, regen, cleric stance holyx3 swift holy, cleric stance heal spam. rinse repeat. You obviously adjust according to your group. If your tank is saving the cd's as an oh shit button then itll mess up your rotation and he will die while your in cleric stance. If you don't have a bard for mana song, then you cant holy as much and will need pauses. Before the run and grab phases stone skin your tank and have him topped.

[Ebon_Drake]

A healer should not have the best AOE DPS ability in the game, period.

period.

Let me reiterate.. Period.

(but! words words words cool down words mana cost words words words defending my class words words!!!)

No.. Again let me reiterate.. This discussion shouldn't even be happening.. at all.. Period..

[Ghishlain]

A healer should not have the best AOE DPS ability in the game, period.

period.

Let me reiterate.. Period.

(but! words words words cool down words mana cost words words words defending my class words words!!!)

No.. Again let me reiterate.. This discussion shouldn't even be happening.. at all.. Period..

To be fair, if you remove ALL restrictions about a massive AoE from the context, Flare is technically better.

[Ebon_Drake]

To be fair, if you remove ALL restrictions about a massive AoE from the context, Flare is technically better.

I said healer.. As far as I know both Scholar and White Mage are both healers. Neither of these two classes should have the best AOE DPS in the game, period. (Or best single target DPS ability either as far as I'm concerned.)

If we really want to be honest.. Bards can not heal other players either AOE or single target at all, much less "best AOE in game". Can Monk? can Black Mage? Can Dragoon? Can Marauder? I get Summoner has Physic, but that's a joke if you're trying to heal anything. sure Paladin gets cure1, again another joke. There is absolutely NO reason for a healing class to have any serious form of anything DPS save just enough to scrape by when soloing story content.


--edit--

I ran out of posts and it's about time to leave work and go home to play FF14 all night. I'll continue this argument tomorrow from work if I see it in the newest posts section.

Ghishlain, I like your level headed arguments.

[Ghishlain]

I said healer.. As far as I know both Scholar and White Mage are both healers. Neither of these two classes should have the best AOE DPS in the game, period. (Or best single target DPS ability either as far as I'm concerned.)

If we really want to be honest.. Bards can not heal other players either AOE or single target at all, much less "best AOE in game". Can Monk? can Black Mage? Can Dragoon? Can Marauder? I get Summoner has Physic, but that's a joke if you're trying to heal anything. sure Paladin gets cure1, again another joke. There is absolutely NO reason for a healing class to have any serious form of anything DPS save just enough to scrape by when soloing story content.

I'm gonna be nitpicky here. You have made mention Holy is the best AoE DPS in the game when it is clearly not given Flare is better. If you want to get out on a technicality, Holy is an incredibly potent AoE, but certainly not "the best". Therefore, a healer class does not have the best AoE DPS in the game.

Holy gets better and better the more mobs you can stack in range of the spell, I will not disagree with that. However, to use Holy in an incredibly effective way, you need to be over geared up the wazoo. Using Holy in any "normal" means as a healer can be outright suicidal for your party if they are ill prepared since Holy without Swiftcast basically locks the healer out for 5+ seconds (3 second cast + 2+ second animation delay). A two GCD lockout can be disastrous for your party and Holy in any normal circumstance should be used sparingly. Due to the Stun on Holy, it is possible to make a quick recovery after you pop it the first time, but thanks to diminishing returns, Holy loses that "safety net" after a few casts.

Though Holy is a powerful spell, many healers need to have the situational awareness to use it effectively. Casting Holy after Holy after Holy indiscriminately will just lead to a party wipe. The healer has to understand what their group is capable of doing and when is a good time to weave a Holy into their heals for maximum benefit. Does that make Holy any less potent of a spell? No. It just means the good healers will know when to use it and the bad healers will just cause a wipe. Unfortunately, the potency of Holy can just breed bad healers, in which point I do agree that WHMs who spam Holy need to get their head checked and that the spell itself can potentially breed many bad healers due to the power level of the spell.

[Zoeila]

recently my FC was short on dps so we ran a pld blm whm sch WP and cut our run times down to about 18 mins.

[hamsteak]

I'm not dropping 20% DPS the entire run so you can spam Holy on every fight through out the dungeon.

Sorry.

mage's ballad isn't used for the healer, it's used so that the tank can keep spamming flash