BLM Fire II incredibly lack luster

[faceroll]

Actually a competent blizzard II rotation does use flare, gg, learn to play the class and maximize your damage before making yourself sound retarded.

I'm fairly certain you wouldn't use flare while having umbral ice

[Kyloki]

I'm fairly certain you wouldn't use flare while having umbral ice

You sure dont. If you do you're retarded. But you still use flare in a blizzard II rotation, that's why its called a rotation and not blizzard II spam.

[xyaie]

You use flare after fire 3, it gets the speed bonus from UI3, and the damage bonus from AF3, casting a 260 potency (buffed what, 80%?) in 1.7 seconds. then transpose, wait half a sec, and ice 2 x2. so 2 of the GCD are the same as spamming ice 2, 1 is single target, then a spell with 160 more potency than ice 2. you actually have to pay remote attention, but even without taking into account the damage of fire 3, its 60 more potency

[faceroll]

You sure dont. If you do you're retarded. But you still use flare in a blizzard II rotation, that's why its called a rotation and not blizzard II spam.

The blizzard rotation is simply blizzard II.
You use Fire III to get out of the blizzard rotation.
Meaning you don't use Flare in your blizzard rotation.
No need to be hostile.

[Devaking55]

You couldn\\'t be any more blind if you tried.

Keep looking though, I am sure you will get it eventually.

No I'm with kevee on this, this is a flawed example because you are using aoe on a single target which makes no sense,
It does matter how many mobs are I'm the encounter, as I've always known it if a skills has 120 potency, against 3 mobs that's 360 potency vs 1 mob at 120 potency your doing more dps. Your example is so convoluted.

[Taemek]

No I'm with kevee on this, this is a flawed example because you are using aoe on a single target which makes no sense,
It does matter how many mobs are I'm the encounter, as I've always known it if a skills has 120 potency, against 3 mobs that's 360 potency vs 1 mob at 120 potency your doing more dps. Your example is so convoluted.

No, it is 120 potency per mob that you hit. Otherwise, if what you say where true, BLM would lay waste to WP speed runs because 10+ mobs would = 1200 potency.

If you hit one mob for 200dmg with Blizz II, you hit them all for roughly same damage depending on the roll of the dice, some might be off +/- .5 to 1%, but that's about it. You are not hitting each mob in the encounter of 10 for 1200 potency each. Also, this is not factoring in any resists, misses or stoneskin effects that any mob at any given time within that pack can reduce that potency.

It is really not a hard concept or equation to understand.

Most of you are misunderstanding the simplistic nature of how DPS is measured across a group of mobs and that it is an accumulative amount of DPS, not multiplicative.

[juniglee]

No, it is 120 potency per mob that you hit. Otherwise, if what you say where true, BLM would lay waste to WP speed runs because 10+ mobs would = 1200 potency.

If you hit one mob for 200dmg with Blizz II, you hit them all for roughly same damage depending on the roll of the dice, some might be off +/- .5 to 1%, but that's about it. You are not hitting each mob in the encounter of 10 for 1200 potency each. Also, this is not factoring in any resists, misses or stoneskin effects that any mob at any given time within that pack can reduce that potency.

It is really not a hard concept or equation to understand.

Most of you are misunderstanding the simplistic nature of how DPS is measured across a group of mobs and that it is an accumulative amount of DPS, not multiplicative.

Your posts in this thread so far seem pretty confusing, you're confusing a really simple matter. Check what ananda posted in the previous page.

Also, yes, 120 potency on 10 targets = 1200 potency. 120 x 10 = 1200 in total. If you are hitting each one of those 10 with a single attack, that is. Not sure where you are getting 1200 potency per mob from...that would be 12000 potency?

Using some real world examples, when I run WP my BLM is equipped with Sanguine Scepter HQ:
Average Fire I damage per mob = 490. Average Fire II damage per mob = 310. However, consider that Fire II is also an AoE attack, meaning it hits more than 1 target.

Assuming I hit 3 targets (and they had 5k health each), and that I have Astral Fire III up, and have limitless mana (this part is not real world but just to illustrate my point):
It would take me just over 10 Fire I spams to down each one. That's 25 seconds per mob (2.5s GCD x 10 attacks = 25). This gives me 75 seconds in total.
It would take me about about 16 Fire II spams to take down the entire group. That's about 48 seconds in total (3s GCD x 16 = 48. Fire II has a slightly longer cast time than Fire I).

Of course, single target spam wouldn't be that slow, since I will probably have some Firestarter procs in between. This also doesn't factor in crits, which can sway the results of one scenario. And finally, this doesn't include the situations where I run out of mana:
- On Fire I spam, I'd go Blizzard III, then Thunder II then Fire III and repeat Fire I/Firestarter spams
- On Fire II spam, I'd round off with Flare, then Transpose to Umbral Ice I, and use Blizzard II twice, then Fire III and back to Fire II spams, and round off with Flare again until dead. Also, don't forget Flare + Convert/Flare. Flare does roughly 830 damage, which is almost triple of what Fire II does for me.
- Fire II does cost more mana per cast, but the ending Flare usually rounds it off by doing double or triple what a single Fire II in Astral Fire III can do. Once again, not including an additional Convert/Flare.
- Single target Blizzard I does roughly the same damage as Blizzard II would on a single target, as I don't recall it gets a potency buff while under Umbral Ice.

I agree with you that there is a break point where it's more efficient to single target than AoE-ing, and I find this is usually at 2 mobs remaining, due to reasons stated above.

[PessimiStick]

For those of you who still haven't figured it out, Taemek is a troll. No one that can keep from drowning in the shower is as dumb as he pretends to be. He used to only troll tank threads, he seems to have expanded to DPS threads.

[Allyrion]

For those of you who still haven't figured it out, Taemek is a troll. No one that can keep from drowning in the shower is as dumb as he pretends to be. He used to only troll tank threads, he seems to have expanded to DPS threads.

^^ This. Don't even bother.

[AppleGrocer]

Perhaps I'm doing something horribly wrong, but every time I've parsed Blizzard II spam is always much lower dps than a Fire II rotation, albeit a Fire II rotation that includes Swiftcast Flares+Transpose/Convert.

My basic AoE rotation is (you can start with Blizz III if you want, I usually don't...):
Fire III->Fire II.....->Blizz III->Blizz II->Fire III-> (Raging Strikes)-> Fire II...-> (Swiftcast-> Flare->Convert)-> Blizz III->Blizz II->Fire III-> Fire II...-> (Swiftcast-> Flare->Transpose)-> Blizz II-> Fire III-> etc.

I like to get the extra tick that casting Blizz II allows in order to get enough mana to use one more Fire II before hitting my red line, though you could probably cut it after Convert and sneak in another Fire II before switching stances. And I know that some people say that using SC->Flare->Transpose is a dps loss, but every time I've parsed it provides a dps boost (worst case scenario is you transpose right after a mana tick was supposed to happen and idle for ~a GCD, best case scenario, it's essentially free dps with a slightly longer cast time on your next Fire III). Might be worth cutting, might not, still need to play around with it more. I just like to use Swiftcast for *something* when Convert is down.

I think that the Blizz III-> Fire III->Flare-> Transpose-> Blizz II X2-> Fire III->etc. rotation might be more dps then you're normal Fire II rotation, but it's just so finicky. Sometimes Flare doesnt get the cast speed buff from Umbral Ice III (sometimes Fire III doesn't even get it if you press it too fast), and you idle to a complete stop for ~15 seconds if you press transpose too early during the cast animation for Flare. Sure, if you can pull it off consistently, which isn't too terribly hard, you will probably gain a chunk of dps, but IMO it's not worth the trouble or the penalty for screwing up.

Keep in mind that I'm still testing stuff out and parsers aren't super reliable, but I figured another point of view might be useful to the community. Especially considering that other poster a page or two back that got opposite results compared to the OP's.