The Solo disease?

[Dubont]

I speak mostly of scaled content. (And not in FFXIV in particular, just as a general concept) For example: If you were to do a 3 man instance for the rare super soaker, and this instance had a 50% drop rate, that means that each person in the party has a 16% chance of getting the super soaker. If they were to scale this instance (allow soloers to try it scaled like they do with levequests) as a single individual, you should get the same chance of drop which is 16%, and not the 50% chance that a party shared. In this way it is properly scaled, equal effort is equal reward. If the soloer got the original 50% drop chance, that would be unfair to the three man party which only (as individuals) had a 16% chance to get it. Unfortunately when content isnt scaled correctly the soloer often gets the full 50% (meaning they have a three times higher chance to get the item then anyone in the three man group).

this isn't how games work. In a 3 man instance, there is usually 1 chest. That single chest has a 50% chance of dropping the super soaker. This means that the party, as a whole, has a 50% chance of obtaining it. Usually in 3 man parties, people will determine a "chest master." This is the person that opens the chest and obtains all loot from that battle. The only difference between 3 people doing it and 1 person doing it is that with 1 person, you are ALWAYS the chest master. This doesn't increase or decrease your chance of the item dropping, it just increases your chance of obtaining it but always lowers your chances of success, unless you are above par.

[Synapse]

I tried to ignore this thread but as I was cooking breakfast just now...I just can't stop thinking about this till I express my own opinion.

There is a great many views and ways I see this from both sides of the argument. But among all the things I thought about, this stands out in my mind the most.


I kinda feel sad for you OP. There is a feeling in a team after a great challenge that is not equal to that of accomplishing things solo.

When a team of people have spent countless hours leveling, gearing, researching ect. Then they run into a dungeon together, struggle and bleed all the way through, and then the boss. The boss is epic and so is his damage. The tank barely managing to keep the boss attention, the dps pushing hard giving everything they've got and the healers having a heart attack everytime the boss crits the tank. Then there's a twist. Something unexpected happens and suddenly the whole team has to change what they're doing to stay organized and alive. They make it through the moment and still pushing hard. Harder and harder. Faster and faster. Hearts are pounding from the excitement. At this point, everyone is in zone and nothing else in the world matter but killing this f@#&er at all costs!

And then it happens! The boss falls! Everyone celebrates and the rewards are great! They take screenshots together, post them on the forums and make it their PC wallpaper. Its a feeling that lasts a long time and the memory lasts forever.

Such great effort and teamwork is not the same, cannot be equal and not nearly admired as the soloist.

I hope you find that challenge, make some friends, put aside your solitude and enjoy life, even digitally with some companions.

Good luck

Man, that brought back some memories from FFXI as i was reading. Good Times! Yeah, sense of accomplishment you get as a group is definately better.

[thedevilsjester]

Content shouldn't be based around the solo player, but should instead be based around a small group so that groups still feel challenged while allowing skilled soloists to acquire the same rewards.

FFXIV does a good job of this by having their scalable levequest system. It is a very nice system.

If it takes a party to kill a NM, but you can't kill it solo, you shouldn't get that reward.

No one is really talking about NM's. These are things that (at least in this topic) we all pretty much agree should not be soloable.

I want to note that when I say soloable, I am not ever referring to exploited game mechanics or unintended behavior of skills or mobs that results in a soloist being able to solo something that is scaled to a party. I am referring (always) to scalable content (as in certain instances and levequests, etc...)

@Dubont It doesn't seem like you are talking about a scaled environment. It sounds like you are talking about one person doing a three man instance. Scaling is much different and would result in the situation I described (if done properly).

[Kilta_Firelotus]

I love how people are not reading what the OP is really saying and are swayed by his pretty words while twisting mine.
There is a difference between a soloer, and someone who just should not play mmo. Which yes mmo are about grouping up with OPTION to solo. But GROUPING UP IS THE MAIN THING.
The OP stance can be simplified to this
"Hi i'm a solo player, I just started playing this mmo. I decided to drum up drama by asking why soloers are hated? (but this isn't really a question) I solo because I feel like it and I do not wish to party. I also feel There should be more solo content. I feel solo rewards should be the same as group awards even though I do not know how that will effect the game. I'm not anti social, but do not expect me to party up even after friending you. And if you feel that is rude then, what am I wasted space if I do not party with you?"
I do not mind people who perfer to solo. But if they flat out refuse (which OP did) refuse to party at all. unless YOU need help. Then why should u play

[Leeloo]

No Kilta, some of us have this wacky ability to read the OP's well thought out explanations and ignore your nonsense.

[Dubont]

FFXIV does a good job of this by having their scalable levequest system. It is a very nice system.


No one is really talking about NM's. These are things that (at least in this topic) we all pretty much agree should not be soloable.

I want to note that when I say soloable, I am not ever referring to exploited game mechanics or unintended behavior of skills or mobs that results in a soloist being able to solo something that is scaled to a party. I am referring (always) to scalable content (as in certain instances and levequests, etc...)

@Dubont You are not talking about a scaled environment. You are talking about one person doing a three man instance. Scaling is much different and would result in the situation I described (if done properly).

I understand your concept of scaling, but the difficulty of something should be set in stone if it's for an actual reward. For example: The levequests. Sure, you can change the difficulty based on how many are in your party and can even set it to * if you feel like you are not too great at soloing, but don't like other players. Now, while this is great for leveling, NMs, Arena instances (BCNMs, KSNMs etc), Endgame raids and most of all Quests should not have this type of scaling. If something is significantly harder just because you have more people, of course everyone is going to switch to the best solo class/job combo and solo it JUST for the ease of difficulty. It may be a little more work on your part, but if the mob/quest/w.e is easier, most will solo just for this.

tl;dr: Scaling is a good concept for leveling, but when it comes to actual rewards that could have an influence on your performance, the difficulty should be set in stone and should not change based on how many people you decide to do said event with.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

@TdJ
The reason people hate soloist is because how rude they seem. We ask them to join in linkshell or group activities, and flat out refuse. But if they need help they ask or expect it. They do not really act like their part of the community, sure they MAY talk. (not al soloist do) But most (and you fullly admited) Only play the game for yourself. That isn't how mmorpg are suppose to work. You are part of an online community of players who aude each other in variouse ways for various reasons. And you can easily do group crafting and gathering for the heck of it. Like with crafting each person can make a certain part of a bigger craft you guys combin your efforts and spit the results evenly.

When I said really read what your saying, I ment look how snobby you sound. We do not need to know that you play an mmo and refuse to party you setting yourself up to look like a donkey's rear end. It takes more then talking to get to know ppl in mmo.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

No Kilta, some of us have this wacky ability to read the OP's well thought out explanations and ignore your nonsense.

It isn't nonsence he fully admited it in the starting post. He has time to party but refuses to. Which makes him sound like a arse.

[thedevilsjester]

"Hi i'm a solo player, I just started playing this mmo. I decided to drum up drama by asking why soloers are hated?

First, did I ever ask that question? Once?
Second, I have been playing FFXIV since launch, and FFXI before it since (US) launch.

I solo because I feel like it and I do not wish to party.

Hey you actually got something right.

I also feel There should be more solo content.

Where pray tell do you get this from? Are you actually following this thread? I think the solo content in this game is perfect. No need to change a thing.

I feel solo rewards should be the same as group awards even though I do not know how that will effect the game.

Firstly I am pretty well versed on how aspects would affect the game, having developed games and software for nearly fifteen years, I have a pretty good understanding of their internals. That being said, I never said that solo rewards should be the same as group rewards, I said that equal effort should produce equal rewards. While that could, in some instances translate into your comment, it will, more often than not, be something entirely different.

I'm not anti social, but do not expect me to party up even after friending you. And if you feel that is rude then, what am I wasted space if I do not party with you?

Though you get the tone wrong (as I guess is your point), this does sum up a lot while leaving crucial elements out. First, and foremost, none of my friends want to party, thats how they became my friends, because we are of like minds. However if one (or more) of my friends needed help with something, I would gladly join them to help. I have even, on occasion, joined a party (of random strangers) that was doing content I had no interest in and had already completed just because they needed a tank and couldn't find one. (Which I mention already in a previous post, though you conveniently ignored it to make your point)


Just keep living in your dream world where I apparently demand for more solo content, and where I am an evil anti-socialist that will growl at you if you so much as send me a tell.

@Dubont I agree...mostly. For some situations, some rare gear or item, usually one that would require a major boss fight, should not be scaled down. Most instances in general can be though (without an imbalance) and I have made it clear that I recognize that there are times when something should just not be soloable.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

"I have plenty of time on my hands, and could find a group easily if I wanted one. I don't. In fact, unless friends need help doing something, or I have no choice in the matter, "I do not group at all, and will often turn groups down because I simply do not want to play with other people.

ok yes i miss read something for that I'm sorry but you are infact coming off as really rude. Which is why ppl are on your case. And you are infact twisting my words idm if you solo. But when you refuse parties it does make you look like a snob. Parting is a way to bond with ppl ingame not just a means to an end. You and your friends and be stronger if you do content together. And in many replies you are infact highly siggesting SE scale content for soloits which by the looks seems demanding. I'm not nor was I here taunting you. I was telling you my side of the story. Ans telling you how you look from a different prospective. I'm not saying your evil, but you seem rude.