Bard Nerfs Offically Confirmed

[Bardo]

As I stated a moment ago, most Twintania kills have been double Bard for more reasons than just Song coverage.

I just searched for Twintania Kill Video on youtube and got several results that only run one Bard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL9TWeYSplI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvqQs_We2s0

If bard were actually doing more dps AND providing songs, why would everyone not triple bard with a token melee for LB?

All I'm saying is:
I think we both agree that a few fights provide mechanics that are advantageous to Bard (or adversely detrimental to other DD's).
I don't think using those few fights as evidence that Bard needs nerfs is justifiable unless you also look at the fights that are advantageous to other DD's and use those as evidence that those classes need nerfs as well.
Especially after they've already said they're going to tone down the mechanics that are adversely detrimental to Melee DD's.

[Zilara]

That's the main reason I added the qualifier 'most' :P
In reality though, while many Twintania kills have been done with similar group setups, the entirety of coil is doable with almost any party setup. While you could class stack heavily for Twintania, and as a direct result obliterate every conflag and dreadknight with little to no effort, most groups maintain the same group composition they've killed the previous turns with simply due to gear progression and player skill in a given class. I've even seen Twintania kills with a dragoon o_o

What it boils down to is that I know the numbers I've seen are considerably higher than they should be given what the idea behind the class is. The disparity between some of our parses sometimes reaches WoW levels of silliness, like one particular parse where over 65% of my damage was critical over 77 minutes, and I beat our BLM by about 40%.
Most of our parses are a little more evenly balanced, but there are factors in Bard mechanics that can lead to overwhelming amounts of damage, in particular the scaling on crit rating and the synergy between Barrage and our other cooldowns. These two can generally lead to us topping damage on any straightforward encounter, and I do have the information in reserve to back it up.

...At least, once the blood in my body that I've replaced with caffeine starts to recirculate and I get this research paper turned in.

[Woodberry]

Couple of things to note:

1. Bards are exceptional at short parses, meaning dreads.
2. The current FFAPP is counting bard dots high.

I think what the current parser is doing is counting every dot as a crit if the initial damage is a crit, but even then sometimes it counts them too high. It seems to effect the crit percentage as well.

[Leon_Stormrage]

There are people thinking that Bards are top dps ?
A handicapped dragoon can perfectly parse 250 dps on Caduceus and ADS. How many parse you as Bard?

[Zilara]

Super-late response, was still at class. I just wanted to clarify that we've been using LogRep for the past several weeks, so far it's proven to be much more detailed and accurate than FFXIVAPP has been, especially where DoTs are concerned. We originally switched parsers due to concerns about the viability of summoners, and it was much clearer about how Summoner damage works out.

The primary differences between LogRep and FFAPP are the DPS tracking methods. LogRep calculates DPS based on active time, that is, time spent attacking within a certain margin, so time spent trapped in a conflag or dodging divebombs isn't counted. Total damage still takes a hit, but it's a more accurate indicator of performance since it removes a lot of the luck from the typical parse. As an example, our summoner was stunned by four Dreadknights in our kill. I'll track down our parse-guy later and give you some numbers to work with.

Long story short, you should totally switch to LogRep.
Linky - http://bluegarter.guildwork.com/foru...6e4d5f3279cefa

[Woodberry]

I still like FFXIVAPP for the real time. Starting the game a month after launch and not being legacy we are still working on execution, so as long as we are hitting our dps checks on the conflags we don't track too closely regardless.

FFAPP did have an issue earlier with dots, but I believe the guy has it fixed already.

I wish SE would just give the dot damage numbers in the log. I think both parser creators have done a great job using what they have been given.

[ZaelC]

Make another Archer class, maybe Ranger, Sniper, whatever you like.

Make that new class a Ranged DPS Class (of course not as easy to use as BRD is now....).

Make Bard a Ranged Support/Slight DPS Class.

Or just Nerf BRD wich is the plan right now, a good plan actually!

At least for me Archer class is totally screwed now, they said more classes were coming out from the ones that already exist (Like ACN = SCH/SMN) But for Archer they can't make a full DPS class, BRD is already one of the tops DPS (Why SE why!?), and they can't make a Support class because BRD already haves support, and everyone knows the support class of Archer should be BRD and it should have like 5 - 7 songs with actually useful purposes (raise crit, or skill/spell speed for example) and much less dps. Make them a must have class in a group, but not because the easy damage plus silence!.

A BRD needs to be support, a bow for a BRD is a secondary weapon, or is it possible to play a song with a bow? Hell no!

[Kolaina]

Make them a must have class in a group

this here, when people were first starting to reach end game, and due to the absolute easy mode of the story, many people have not figured out the mechanics of their class yet to be able to utilize them for max potential. this led to the delusion that bards were top dps, making groups believe they were a must have for smoother, more efficient runs. this idea you have here is exactly what started the people kicking and screaming for the bard nerf in the first place

a bow for a BRD is a secondary weapon, or is it possible to play a song with a bow? Hell no!

so as bard is an archers "job" class, the main class is still archer. taking away the bow as main weapon does not make sense here. and the relic bow is a harp.

as your "job" is dragoon, in which your specialty is to jump, how about they remove your lance and just give you a pogo stick?

[Shinnra]

it feels like bards gonna get nerfed other class gonna become to "strong" then they gonna get nerfed and so on until every single class will be nerfed and then we will get phase of " my class is to weak now!" "what happened?!" "what the hell?" so......... why can't we just have all classes left alone as they are? there will be always people that think some class is stronger than others and blah blah blah and at least for me it is not that easy being bard and getting gear from dungeons since I think only us bards relay on dexterity stat most? or it's just shitty luck. And really any class can be strong if it is played correctly...

[Kolaina]

it feels like bards gonna get nerfed other class gonna become to "strong" then they gonna get nerfed and so on until every single class will be nerfed and then we will get phase of " my class is to weak now!" "what happened?!" "what the hell?" so......... why can't we just have all classes left alone as they are? there will be always people that think some class is stronger than others and blah blah blah and at least for me it is not that easy being bard and getting gear from dungeons since I think only us bards relay on dexterity stat most? or it's just shitty luck. And really any class can be strong if it is played correctly...

i'd bet money on what you just said coming true. everyone wants to be the best class in game, or on high demand. after bard gets "fixed", people will call out another class that appears superior to their own. the classes that receive negative changes will feel them to be unjustified and cry out they are too weak and need to be "fixed". it will be a never ending cycle of catering to everyone.

in a pve oriented game, buffs are good. nerfing any class, even the ones you don't play effect you too. imagine they nerf say, bard and summoner for the sake of example, and you get both in your group. you now have 2 handicapped classes to deal with slowing down the potential they could have provided before catering to people who feel entitled.

or they go above and beyond with this bard "fix", and people lose any enjoyment they had with the class and no longer want to play as bard? who then will fill your mp/tp on speed runs so you don't need to slow down a bit to refresh? or who will be an over healing whm's crutch of a mana battery?