Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[ExarKun007]

Problem is, Tower will be in the DF. Meaning you could potentially get 6 WARs with you. They've got to be able to complete the same content as PLD in a PuG.

[LavellaNyteshade]

I mean, I'll take a pointless carry through Titan HM with me as a mediocre DPS just to pass the instance and get my Relic weapon but if this is what Yoshi thinks WAR is for, never MT only carry then fine I'll just roll a SMN or something and never tank again in this game. I don't want to be PLD to tank.

I have beaten Titan as WAR tank and so has another FC buddy. Very possible. You need better gear, first of all. Yes, that one AF1 body piece makes a huge difference so replace it with HDL, AF2 or HVY Allaghan. Then, make sure you are rotating your buffs right. Dont just put it all on your healers when MB comes. Find the sweet spot to avoid the Bomb blast after heart phase. Good vids on youtube. Small things ad up to huge differences when you working with MMO battle mechanics. Its all numbers. You guys really need to fullly explore your jobs before jumping on forums and whining/complaining.

[Amyas]

I have beaten Titan as WAR tank and so has another FC buddy. Very possible. You need better gear, first of all. Yes, that one AF1 body piece makes a huge difference so replace it with HDL, AF2 or HVY Allaghan. Then, make sure you are rotating your buffs right. Dont just put it all on your healers when MB comes. Find the sweet spot to avoid the Bomb blast after heart phase. Good vids on youtube. Small things ad up to huge differences when you working with MMO battle mechanics. Its all numbers. You guys really need to fullly explore your jobs before jumping on forums and whining/complaining.

I beat Titan for the first time last night maintanking it as war, seems all you need really is good healers that can top you off for MB and that's it.

[rexie]

*yawns*

Some people just don't get it; there is no OT or MT when it comes to WAR or PLD, both are capable tanks designed to tank anything and ALL game content is designed with that parameter; ANY exception is an oversight from the developers. They did admit that on coil turn 1, and they are fixing it. PLD is better with certain "functions", and WAR is better with other "functions", however BOTH have the exact SAME role i.e. tank. Can we move on?
It is a ridiculous argument just like arguing who is better WHM or SCH, or MNK & DRG, or BLM & SMN.

If any class is an OT, then that would be DRG/LNC... Nobody really bothers paying attention to clues provided by SE.

@ExarKun007
It has been mentioned by the developers like MILLION times already since pre-alpha, that:

a) Mixing jobs is the best optimal approach for three primary reasons:
1) you get different abilities from all classes which contribute to overall battle potential of the party.
2) get full PT buff, which is tremendously useful.
3) fastest LB bar filling up (it has been mentioned several times that many encounters are designed where LB can make it or break it)
b) They are avoid situation where one job is favored to the other and they'll work to ensure that happens (prime example of enforcing such policy is the controversial removal of elemental weakness cycle)

In the end, let's all get along and be a happy family! Really This is a game and I know I sound like barney now (eww!).. but some people take games too seriously.

Oh btw, did you guys watch video of DRG main tanking titan? ^_^

Case rested.

[Judge_Xero]

Unless you're only getting hit for 3200 with Mountain Buster (that's what I get hit for on my *PLD*; WAR takes closer to 4-4.5k), Inner Beast isn't going to mitigate 75% of the damage on a crit. On top of that, this is counting a Berserked IB, which you're going to have once every 3 Mountain Busters. You can normally expect to get 25-30% of the MB with an Inner Beast. Honestly, you're generally better off using it after Rock Buster rather than Mountain Buster so that you're topped off for MB.

While War still has a long way to go being equal to Paladin in Coil, on Titan it's pretty good.
With a mix of DL/AK gear and an i70 Axe you'll be sitting at ~5700HP with Defiance and be able to self heal with Inner Beast for ~1300HP on a normal hit (400 STR)
Pre-Heart you can use Storm's Eye/Butcher's Block get a huge lead on Enmity
After Heart you can cycle Storm's Eye/Storm's PathX2. It's not a huge amount of health (~125 HP per Storm's Path) but it's something. Also when used with Unchained and Bloodbath you will have 30 seconds of self heals worth about 2600HP (20 seconds of Unchained). Double Inner Beast with Infuriate. Thrill of Battle + Stoneskin. Normal Inner Beast and Berserk, Second Wind, Inner Release. That should get you through the last of it.

On some fights, a viable option (Cadaceus) is to have two healers in Cleric Stance. With a Warrior spec'd out in Damage gear + Damage from the mages + 65% X 2 Heals (125% Healing) you can get the same damage as a PLD, 2DD and a healer, but with 125% more heals available for the Warrior plus it's own self heals.

Edited: The party with two healers in Cleric's Stance would also need a DD. I don't mean 2XHealer + WAR ='s PLD, Healer, 2xDD.

Parsed myself on Warrior for sheets and giggles. 155 DPS in Defiance with 400 STR and Bravura.

[Kitru]

With a mix of DL/AK gear and an i70 Axe you'll be sitting at ~5700HP with Defiance and be able to self heal with Inner Beast for ~1300HP on a normal hit (400 STR)

I'm kinda curious how you're packing 400 STR and only 5700 hp unless you allocated full STR and are using DPS jewelry because DL/AK mix that's actually built around *tanking* won't get anywhere *near* 400 STR and will *easily* have in excess of 6k hp in Defiance. I'm at 350 STR with 7.5k hp and I'm wearing 3/5 AF2 with Bravura; my PLD, which is DL/AK mix has 310 STR (WAR only has 8 STR more than PLD) and 5.3k hp. If you're using DPS jewelry and stacking up STR, yeah, it'll make sense that your Inner Beast heals for a higher total percentage of your hp, mainly because that healing is acting upon a smaller number for percentage gains: Inner Beast will heal you for 100% of your total hp if you're packing a whopping 1.5k hp. For people actually dressed like tanks, the ratios will be exactly what I said. If you've got that little hp, you better hope that your healers are absolutely spot on because an unmitigated Rock Buster>Mountain Buster is going to do easily more than what you've got, especially since you're going to have much lower Parry Rating thanks to all of that DPS jewelry so it's actually more likely that you're going to get an unmitigated string.

Also when used with Unchained and Bloodbath you will have 30 seconds of self heals worth about 2600HP (20 seconds of Unchained).

Using your own parsed DPS, that's *way* more than you'd actually get. Ignoring the fact that the 155 you parsed is going to be inflated by CD usage already, 20 seconds would put you at 4133 damage dealt (155 / .75 * 20) over that 20 seconds. Throw another 1550 on top of that for the other 10 seconds, and you're getting a whopping ~1421, not 2600. Plus, since it's over 30 seconds rather than immediate, it's next to worthless for surviving Mountain Buster since there's follow up damage and that amounts to about 2-3 auto-attacks or less than a p5 Tumult (which is what makes MB really dangerous: it's a big hit bracketed by more damage).

I'm also surprised that you seem to think that there will only be 4 Mountain Busters in p5. MB happens about once every 30 seconds and p5 starts with it so, unless you can burn through 50% of Titan's hp in less than 2 minutes, you're going to get a lot more than that, which means that you're not going to have .

The party with two healers in Cleric's Stance would also need a DD. I don't mean 2XHealer + WAR ='s PLD, Healer, 2xDD.

Your math for that composition makes absolutely no sense. Unless you've somehow magically found a way to cast multiple spells at the same time, your "math" makes no sense whatsoever. Plus, 65 * 2 = 130, not 125.

Furthermore, a healer in Cleric Stance manages less than half of the healing of someone outside of it. Assuming you're talking about stance dancing, healers would be spending only 35% of their time DPSing because otherwise you're not getting 65% from an actual healer, which means that they're getting, at best, 40% damage uptime (accounting for DoTs, which isn't going to be as efficient as an actual DPS). Let's say that healers do 75% of the damage that a DPS does while in Cleric Stance and tanks do 50% of a DPS's: your composition would be getting 130% heals and 210% DPS (40 * .75 + 40 * .75 + 100 + 50); the standard composition would be getting 100% heals and 250% DPS (100 + 100 + 0 + 50). Plus, all of this assumes that the healers are dancing absolutely perfectly. The only reason you're getting more healing is because you're bringing 2 healers; you're not actually getting more DPS at all.

Do you want to try and reevaluate some of that math because, as it stands, nothing of what you said makes the slightest bit of sense with the exception of your Storm's Path recommendation, which is a whopping 250 hp every 22.5 seconds and isn't going to make *any* kind of difference; a WHM will overheal you for more than that with a single cast of Regen.

[Judge_Xero]

Yeah, that was with all DPS jewelery and spec'd for STR. The parry rating is pretty well useless as it's adding maybe 3% mitigation on attacks that can be parried.

For the damage to healing with Unchained and Bloodbath, the DPS gear gives you around 2.4 GCD. I did the total potency over the 30 seconds of Bloodbath and factored in the 30% more damage for 20 of those seconds + the heals from Storm's Path. Then I used BLITBALL to find the damage on the total Potency and turned it into 25% heals.

A WHM or SCH in Cleric Stance can do a lot of damage with their DOTS and spells while healing in the uptime of the DOTS. I'm not sure what the actual numbers for a competent DPS are. In most cases I've seen 160-220 DPS for DD's. So each healer would only need 70-80 DPS on top of tossing heals. How does a healer only heal less than half when in Cleric Stance? -20% Heals and swaps INT<->MND. Maybe 40% at the most.

[Kitru]

How does a healer only heal less than half when in Cleric Stance? -20% Heals and swaps INT<->MND. Maybe 40% at the most.

I checked it on my WHM. Cure hit for 850 without Cleric Stance up and 400 with Cleric Stance up. Don't underestimate the hit that the INT>MND swap provides. My MND is more than double my INT and the 20% drop hits it even harder.

[Judge_Xero]

I checked it on my WHM. Cure hit for 850 without Cleric Stance up and 400 with Cleric Stance up. Don't underestimate the hit that the INT>MND swap provides. My MND is more than double my INT and the 20% drop hits it even harder.

Wow, so how would you consider just having two Healers not in Cleric Stance. What is a reasonable damage number they could put out while healing at the same time?

[Gandora]

For my personal pov, I really pray for SE to give us back Raging Rush, King Justice and DD potential like the good ol' FFXI...