DD Nerfed

[KariArisu]

it isnt slow enough , i started 2 weeks ago , i dont grind fates and almost at lvl 50 ...
probably the fastest MMO to reach max lvl , which means tons of people unable to play their class ....

fates should be something you unlock when you reach 50 with your first character , not something noobs could join

LEVELING DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOOD AT YOUR JOB. You need to play a job at 50 to learn it. That is all. Modern MMOs that are not Korean Grindfest MMOs are all about endgame, leveling is just a small deterrent and should NOT take very long, especially in a game with multi-classing.

[Redemption]

LEVELING DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOOD AT YOUR JOB. You need to play a job at 50 to learn it. That is all. Modern MMOs that are not Korean Grindfest MMOs are all about endgame, leveling is just a small deterrent and should NOT take very long, especially in a game with multi-classing.

Mmm, no. I always learn a lot about my job when leveling because I use the skills and observe. Leveling will not teach you all you need to know in play, but it definitely does provide a learning experience.

In fact this is probably more true here than in many games. The devs have even explicitly stated that they view the leveling portion of the game as a kind of tutorial on how to play. Not that I agree with that philosophy.

Also disagree with your comment about MMOs being all about endgame and that leveling shouldn't take long. Some mmos are indeed all about endgame, I personally think that is a horrible way to make the game. The game should be fun no matter what level you are and leveling should be an interesting part of the game in and of itself.. else why even have it?

[KariArisu]

I never denied that leveling gives a learning experience. However, it is not required. It takes less than 30 minutes to learn to play a job you've never played before at 50. Read each skill, research a rotation, make improvements if you can, etc. The game does not have a vast amount of skills. Even in FFXI, most of us burned jobs from 30 to 99 post-Abyssea and we still played our jobs at the highest skill level. Once you've played the game enough, learning new jobs does not take nearly as long as leveling does.

Also, you are in denial if you think MMOs are about leveling up. The only time that applies is Korean Grind MMOs. If the goal is to level up, it becomes difficult to design endgame, and is generally ignored.

Consider it this way, it takes much longer to max every job in XIV than it does to max a single character in any other modern MMO. If you only had to level once, then I would whole-heartedly agree that leveling is too fast. This is not the case, though.

[Redemption]

Also, you are in denial if you think MMOs are about leveling up. The only time that applies is Korean Grind MMOs. If the goal is to level up, it becomes difficult to design endgame, and is generally ignored.

Consider it this way, it takes much longer to max every job in XIV than it does to max a single character in any other modern MMO. If you only had to level once, then I would whole-heartedly agree that leveling is too fast. This is not the case, though.

I never suggested the entire game be about leveling, but that it be an important part of it. Furthermore, thats exactly why it is that way. Where do they say you're expected to have every class leveled? Who is to say that the average player is expected to have no more than 1 class leveled with cross class skills? There is no reason why each class should not take the equivalent time of leveling a single class on another game. Both examples its leveling a single class, just like here the players in those games could level another class by making an alt. Thus, leveling all classes here should be = to leveling an alt of each class in another game.

[xXHalloweenTrixXx]

LEVELING DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOOD AT YOUR JOB. You need to play a job at 50 to learn it. That is all. Modern MMOs that are not Korean Grindfest MMOs are all about endgame, leveling is just a small deterrent and should NOT take very long, especially in a game with multi-classing.

Why are you playing an mmorpg again? It sounds as if you want SE to just hand out level 50s to all new characters made so they can just play end game because that's where they learn to play and apparently the only part of the game that matters. So yes SE ditch all low level zones and content, lets just let everyone start in Wineport at 50 and can immediately go in for BC. Laughable isn't it? But this is your view of mmorpgs in general apparently. But the leveling process to max level should teach players how to use their various skills for end game content.

Honestly if you dislike leveling, you shouldn't be playing mmorpgs in general. Maybe games like CoD or LoL is more to your liking? Hmm~?

Also all this easy grind to 50 through fates obviously is helping out players with beating end game content :P And yes I'm being sarcastic considering a lot of people lack the common knowledge of utilizing their class because they never had opportunities to use their class/Job beyond spamming their instant attacks as quickly as possible or spamming flash or heal in FATES.

[zakalw3]

LEVELING DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOOD AT YOUR JOB. You need to play a job at 50 to learn it. That is all. Modern MMOs that are not Korean Grindfest MMOs are all about endgame, leveling is just a small deterrent and should NOT take very long, especially in a game with multi-classing.

Actually, you're absolutely wrong. Levelling does make you good at your job, or at least it provides a learning curve to ease you in to understanding endgame. And I mean ARR specifically here, the dungeons are set up perfectly to teach new players the mechanics they'll engage with at endgame and how the various classes work and interact with each other.

As a tank, i can hold aggro perfectly at end game content, I understand the enmity system, I know how the other class types work together, and guess what? I knew these things before I even hit endgame as the game had gone out of its way to teach me.

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I wouldn't get too excited about DD, perhaps he constant respawn was unintended and was fixed without them realising.

[RyuujinZERO]

Actually, you're absolutely wrong. Levelling does make you good at your job, or at least it provides a learning curve to ease you in to understanding endgame. And I mean ARR specifically here, the dungeons are set up perfectly to teach new players the mechanics they'll engage with at endgame and how the various classes work and interact with each other.

I believe they were referring to how people just grind to 50 as fast as possible while skipping dungeons.

The strategy for maximizing XP gains in a FATE are often completely the opposite to how to play your class efficiently in a dungeon or trial:

- Healers get best returns by spamming AoE heals mindlessly
- DPS get best returns by spamming AoE's and trying to tag mobs before anyone else
- Tanks get best returns by using emnity generation skills, but not so much they draw aggro and take heavy damage.

Thus simply getting to 50 is no indicator of actual ability.

[Kosmos992k]

LEVELING DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOOD AT YOUR JOB. You need to play a job at 50 to learn it. That is all. Modern MMOs that are not Korean Grindfest MMOs are all about endgame, leveling is just a small deterrent and should NOT take very long, especially in a game with multi-classing.

No, MMORPGs should not be solely about end-game, if end-game content is sufficiently difficult to qualify as end-game it will exclude a very significant fraction of players. It's supposed to be an MMORPG as in role playing game, if leveling was as quick as you seem to wish, we'd all be 50 at everything in which case, why bother with levels at all?

MMORPGs are time-sinks, leveling a class is an integral feature of that. Aside from anything else, unlike solo games, the point of an MMORPG is to spend time in the game with others, leveling different classes extends the time you can spend doing something other than grinding the same crappy end-game content. Ironically you talk about Korean grind-fests, and yet if my reading of comments here is anything to go by, end-game raiding is by definition nothing more than grinding the same end-game content.

Personally I've been playing this daily since Beta 3 and am just now getting my main class to 50, and even my second class is yet to hit 30, because I don't FATE grind. If the FATE system XP was nerfed tomorrow and people stopped spam grinding them, I'd organize a parade in the middle of ul'dah to celebrate.

Ahh, you think that level grinding teaches people how to play their class. That's just precious.

Apparently you've forgotten the lessons learned by tanks and healers in Qarn and Brayflox. Of course you learn your class by level grinding - if you're doing something other than "zerging" FATEs that is...

[Daas]

LEVELING DOES NOT MAKE YOU GOOD AT YOUR JOB. You need to play a job at 50 to learn it. That is all. Modern MMOs that are not Korean Grindfest MMOs are all about endgame, leveling is just a small deterrent and should NOT take very long, especially in a game with multi-classing.

If this were true, there would be no level at all, just a class with abilities and all you improved was your equipment.

[Molly_Millions]

If this were true, there would be no level at all, just a class with abilities and all you improved was your equipment.

Sounds like legacy.