Monks very weak. Need rebalance

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Sorry, but you don't just get to silence other people on these forums. They are free to share their opinions and experiences just as you are. If you want a place where you can have complete control over information, go make your own forum. This is a place for everyone to share their thoughts, whether you like them or not.

Silence fool! THE OP's opinion is always the right opinion! Anyone who disagrees should stay off the post!

[neoreturn]

Cynric, when you say MNK can solo silence ADS. You need give evidence. MNK can't solo silence ADS boss in T2. When you say MNK has decent aoe, you need know what you talking about. MNK can aoe but that's not 'decent'. MNK single target DPS isn't bad for a long run. Again MNK can't bring much value to team, MNK is the hardest dps job to find group. Do you see any group shout for lf a mnk? War definitely is worest overall at moment. Back to 2 month ago, some uber war argue their job design isn't bad and they tank such such in coil. We are talking about an overall feeling not individual who can do an unbelievable job.

[NoctisUmbra]

Cynric, when you say MNK can solo silence ADS. You need give evidence. MNK can't solo silence ADS boss in T2. When you say MNK has decent aoe, you need know what you talking about. MNK can aoe but that's not 'decent'. MNK single target DPS isn't bad for a long run. Again MNK can't bring much value to team, MNK is the hardest dps job to find group. Do you see any group shout for lf a mnk? War definitely is worest overall at moment. Back to 2 month ago, some uber war argue their job design isn't bad and they tank such such in coil.

MNKs may have trouble finding groups in PUGs because PUGs tend to be filled with dimwits who can't even clear content and wouldn't know good dps if it hit them in the face. Not all PUGs, don't get me wrong... but we are talking about pick ups here so you're gonna get a lot of bad with some good.

Looking at PUGs is not a good way to judge a job's effectiveness. Already went through this. Too many people suck with MNK because they don't have enough execution to maintain their GL3 stacks, dots, buffs, etc. However, effective endgame companies will almost entirely acknowledge the ability of MNK as a job.

You can, in fact, solo interrupt ADS with it. It is a very ineffective use of MNK, but quite possible because Arm of the Destroyer, MNK's Silence skill, is on GCD and furthermore it is an Opo-Opo stance skill and therefore always available every ~2s (under GL3 ). Some companies actually ran with that method on ADS first before switching to BRDs/PLDs.

MNK has decent AoE. Its not great, but don't even try to underestimate Rockbreaker. You hit 2 targets with Rockbreaker and your total damage is already greater than what Snap Punch would have done on a single target. Furthermore Rockbreaker hits many targets in a conal AoE situation. Have you run Coil Turn 4 on MNK? I have. I used Rockbreaker. MNK has decent AoE.

A good MNK will bring top DPS to a team. They will also bring Mantra. You point a good MNK player at a target, and you can expect it to die incredibly fast.

Why don't people shout for MNKs? Because that is a very quick way to have a shitty MNK join your party. There are a lot of bad MNK players, because they job isn't as easy to play as BRD, which is the most popular. People don't shout for BRDs because it's a better performing job. People shout for BRDs because it is the easiest and safest DPS job and they have a greater chance of getting someone with decent performance. Shouting for a random MNK means you can get someone with amazing DPS, but you can also get someone who just outright does horrible damage. I have done PUG runs of Prae on MNK with other MNKs in party and there have been times i parsed more than double the damage of another MNK.

Do NOT make the mistake of confusing popularity for what is good and what is bad. If you're going to look at popularity, do NOT make the mistake of looking only at PUGs and shouts, and actually research what the top FCs are doing at endgame. BG just cleared Twintania a couple of days ago. They have a MNK in their party.

[Onyxys]

Why don't people shout for MNKs? Because that is a very quick way to have a shitty MNK join your party. There are a lot of bad MNK players, because they job isn't as easy to play as BRD, which is the most popular. People don't shout for BRDs because it's a better performing job. People shout for BRDs because it is the easiest and safest DPS job and they have a greater chance of getting someone with decent performance.

This is not a reason- every random player can be shity if found in Mordhona or elsewhere- this is not a class problem. But in spite of this we almost never see "lfg monk". We see (at all) "lfg dragoon", but not monk. Repeat- every random player can be shity player, but in spite of this monk is never in a search by raid

[NoctisUmbra]

This is not a reason- every random player can be shity if found in Mordhona or elsewhere- this is not a class problem. But in spite of this we almost never see "lfg monk". We see (at all) "lfg dragoon", but not monk. Repeat- every random player can be shity player, but in spite of this monk is never in a search by raid

MNK players have a higher ratio of being bad because the job itself it seems is too difficult for a lot of people. Yes, every job can have a shitty player behind it. Problem is, MNK DPS varies the most based on player skill. A shitty MNK will do worse than a shitty <insert other DD here>. On the flipside a good MNK will do better than a good <insert other DD here>. That is the nature of the job.

Again, you cannot use what people shout for as an argument for whether a job needs balance adjustments or not. That's about as flimsy as arguments get.

People typically just shout for DPS, regardless of job. Just go in there as MNK and perform well. If you can't, don't go thinking the job needs adjustments. Either get better or pick an easier job.

[Cynric]

The amount of times I've gone into a party and had someone say "Wow at first I doubted you but you're first Monk I've seen DPS properly with the job" Shows me our Monk population really needs to get busy and better. Thanks to Noctis and the other good Monks stepping forward I don't really need to say anything that hasn't been said.


I would however like to reiterate a point Noctis just made, A bad monk will perform worse than a bad Drg, or a bad Brd, like wise a good Monk will outperform everyone on DPS.

Even though I play Monk , I get pretty weary if I have a random Monk I don't know in the party, and usually the DPS they put out isn't really that great. This is a problem, but not a problem with a job. It's a problem with the skill level of people on Monk.

We don't need any tweaks, we need a community guide.

Also, Monk isn't rotation based, It's priority and decision making. That's why no one can settle on a "best" rotation.

Mnk - High Skill cap, High execution entry barrier
Drg - High Skill cap, Medium Entry barrier
Brd - Medium Skill cap, Very low Entry barrier
Smn - Medium Skill cap , Medium Entry Barrier
Blm - Low Skill cap - Low Entry Barrier

[EasymodeX]

Mnk - High Skill cap, High execution entry barrier

I disagree; I find the Monk to be extremely simple to play compared to the Dragoon. Essentially the Monk only needs to track the two DOTs -- but more importantly they only need to track them at the last second or two seconds.

A Dragoon on the other hand needs to track CT >6 seconds ahead of time, and track boss mechanics ~3-4 seconds ahead of time for jumps, not to mention general tracking of Heavy Thrust and Phlebotomize.

Playing a MNK takes literally half my attention compared to playing a DRG. I find that I'm spending half the fights scratching my chin wondering where I should use an optimal Mantra, or what mechanics I can facetank with Fists of Earth to eek out more DPS.

[Myrin]

You can, in fact, solo interrupt ADS with it. It is a very ineffective use of MNK, but quite possible because Arm of the Destroyer, MNK's Silence skill, is on GCD and furthermore it is an Opo-Opo stance skill and therefore always available every ~2s (under GL3 ). Some companies actually ran with that method on ADS first before switching to BRDs/PLDs.

I wouldn't say inneffective, but less effective.

Yes you can't use full rotation if you're in silence duty. But in my case I perform well enough to not wait to place AoD and still do nearly full rotations. Nearly beacause what I don't do is refresh DoT on time, but the adds are down quickly enough so that it's not a real problem.

For T2 Boss, I can -nearly- fully silence it, but I can't use ToD or fracture. And nearly because sometimes the boss skill rotation shift the cast of high voltage (?) and I need backup from a BRD or PAL, but it happen 1 or 2 times during the fight.

[pandabearcat]

You can also play monk at ~95% efficiency sitting on flank the entire fight.

That being said DRG is also at close to 93% efficiency while sitting at backstab the entire fight.

People make melee out to be more complicated than it is.

Well while Easy is right about CT you have to worry about similar effect with Demo, which I'm still calculating whether it is worth clipping or not.

Anyway I wanted to share the good news that work on the monk simulator has started! Hopefully will have something to show in 3 hours or so.

[Vars]

I'm on turn 4 coils w/ mnk as my main and the only issue I think you'll find w/ mnk is where you are forced to start combo's over and over in fights like titan where he jumps away (perfect balance comes in handy). But w/ that aside, mnk out performs drg easily in any extended fight. I myself have a relic +1 drg/90 gear and even on dungeons like AK, my mnk destroys bosses faster then my drg and I don't have the +1 yet for mnk nor any ilvl90 gear. Mnk can be a dps monster but it all falls down to combos and using your buffs like blood for blood and internal release. The only change I would like to see would be extending greased lightning duration a little or twin buff a little but if that never happens I won't lose sleep about it.