Monk- general discussion and feedback

[NoctisUmbra]

Your not getting what I'm trying to saying. I might not be coming across correctly. I'm not trying to focus on the damage output, those numbers can always be changed and likely will at some point. I'm talking about the fight experience. It is stressful to lose a chuck of your damage going into a burn phase and have to spend time ramping it back up. Keeping up your stacks through rotation, knowing when it hit demolish last second so it doesn't fall off but also not overwriten by your last one so you lose you stacks... that's fun. That's why I play monk, for the mini game of "what can I squeeze in my rotation". But what's not fun to me, is losing that mini game because I'm a monk and this battle says so! No one else has that. It needs tweaking.

If your looking for my opinion on how to balance it, I would do this
Replace GL3 with GL5, gain a stack every 10 levels. GL5 = GL3 buff wise. Same duration, lose 2 stacks per when it goes to wear off. It would slow monks down at the start a bit, but help them keep up pressure after non-damage phases.

I see. I get what you're saying, and it's basically what I mentioned earlier which is that it just sucks and feels bad to lose GL3. However, the point is to make sure you don't lose it. There are parts in content where it is unavoidable, so no point stressing there.

However, the dps isnt an issue. You agree. We've established that. The rest is opinionated, and I for one disagree entirely.

No tweak needed.

[DerpyCubone]

I see. I get what you're saying, and it's basically what I mentioned earlier which is that it just sucks and feels bad to lose GL3. However, the point is to make sure you don't lose it. There are parts in content where it is unavoidable, so no point stressing there.

However, the dps isnt an issue. You agree. We've established that. The rest is opinionated, and I for one disagree entirely.

No tweak needed.

Those parts that are unavoidable only pertain to monk though and it has no counter play. It just happens. If only one class is being heavily affected by a fight, there is something off.

[NoctisUmbra]

Those parts that are unavoidable only pertain to monk though and it has no counter play. It just happens. If only one class is being heavily affected by a fight, there is something off.

However, their dps is balanced so that MNK is expected to lose GL3 during those, therefore nothing is off as the dev team considered that.

[DanteMog]

Remove the 2.5 GCD on Monk/Pug skills (or lower it) and have them all on their own set of cooldowns, i hate this 2.5 GCD worst mechanics i've ever dealt with, different classes need Different GCD

[DerpyCubone]

However, their dps is balanced so that MNK is expected to lose GL3 during those, therefore nothing is off as the dev team considered that.

Again, it's not a DPS issue, it's a quality of life issue. I understand they are balanced for losing GL from time to time, that is NOT the point I am making.

[NoctisUmbra]

Again, it's not a DPS issue, it's a quality of life issue. I understand they are balanced for losing GL from time to time, that is NOT the point I am making.

No, I understand you're trying to present it as a quality of life issue. What I don't see is any reasonable argument as to why it can be considered a quality of life issue.

[Roaran]

Greetings. After some discussion of monk's skills and mechanics I want to try to make a summory. I hope, that other monk_players and then developers will pay their attension to this thread:
1) Increase duration of GS up to 20+ seconds or make fading of each stack 1by1 but not all stacks
2) Increase duration of TwSn buff up to 15+ seconds
3) DEcrease duration of Perfect Balance CD till 60- seconds
4) DEcrease duration of Shoulder Tackle CD till 60- seconds
5) REmove AotD out from rotation and increase CD up to 25-30 seconds6) DEcrease duration of Howling Fist CD till 5-7 seconds and decrease damage till 130-140
7) Greatly change skill ONE IIm punch because it is a fully USELESS skill

1. Monk DPS is currently balanced around GS not always being up. If they made it so you could always keep up GS, they would have to nerf MNK's already amazing dmg. Honestly keeping GS as a mechanic that you have to actually try to keep up at times ( primals for example) is actually fun. Removing it just makes me think you're bad and just want to dumb down the game more.

2. Again, the rotation is already easy and it's balanced around having to fit it in every other combo. Why do you want to change it? It doesn't make MNK any more fun to play it doesn't make it any more interesting. Really I don't see the point in making this suggestion at all other than you're too bad to keep it up.

3. Why? You can already put out more AOE damage than almost any other class when you use this skill, and you want to have it more often? Are you even thinking? I mean honestly... Why don't we just ask for bazookas attached to our hands so we can just oneshot everything.

4. Ok, I like to shoulder tackle, it's fun, being able to shoulder tackle would be more fun. This suggestion may actually make sense... so 1/4 so far.

5. Why...? Are you asking for the silence to be ready every 25-30 seconds? Do you really want to be silencing ADS in BC?

6. Again.. WHY!? Howling fist is great even on single target, if you decrease it's damage anymore it won't be useful at all. You have heard of a thing called Rock buster right!?? MNK has great AOE, I don't understand why you think making all these changes are necessary...

7. Yeah, maybe it will be useful in pvp, but maybe it will be used in crystal tower. Who knows... but I don't think it should be anywhere near the top of the list as far as class changes.

Maybe next time you post some suggestions you give some reasons. I could make a list of ridiculous changes to the game ( like bazooka fist weapons ), but without a reason for the suggestion, the actual act of making a suggestion is pointless unless you assume the changes are so obviously necessary there's no point in providing a reason... and there would be no need to make the suggestion in the first place, as you're assuming they already are aware of what you're talking about....

[Ksenia]

Trait for reduced Sprint CD would make them seem more Monk like.

[DerpyCubone]

No, I understand you're trying to present it as a quality of life issue. What I don't see is any reasonable argument as to why it can be considered a quality of life issue.

One class is affected far more then others by being unable to attack from between 3 and 9 seconds, building frustration. That is my quality of life argument. There are few places were player skill is involved, there is nothing you can do to keep your momentum in what I view as a momentum based class. Maybe it's my fault for viewing it as momentum based in the first place, but that's just how it feels to me.

I have 2 simple examples

Titan HM.
Bombs: You have to run away from bombs, bad monks lose their stacks, good monks keep going on the bombs. Skill = GL stays up
Heart: Chances are you are going to lose your stack during the jump, but not always, I've managed to keep it a few times. But that was more luck than anything else. Anywho, You lose your stacks during a heavy DPS phase, You can then either PB and get them back within 3 abilities and start your rotation then, or build up normally. Then poof, get rocked and lose stacks again, and possibly PB depending on if you used it or not. So while your mindset is "I have X amount of time to put out as much damage as possible" through no fault of your own, the fight is knocking your GL off based on RNG. GL = Luck and RNG. (Also im not talking about the loss of DPS while your in the rock itself, that is a non-issue, it's that your delayed getting your damage out yet again in a damage intense phase)

DRG(the other melee, not comparing with ranged classes as that's an unfair comparison) does not have to deal with this. This is purely a MNK issue. While they also have buffs and debuffs to keep up, they aren't based on running through 9 abilities to keep your DPS up/above with others.

Solo play.
As we all know, most of monks abilities are positional based. While your out soloing, those abilities lose a fair chuck of their potential, meaning GL is a little more important to keep your damage up while soloing. If the mobs are even somewhat spaced apart, you will lose GL. This one seems pretty simple to me.

TLDR: For a momentum class, it grinds to a halt far quickly.

[Allyrion]

Snip

Momentum by its definition requires a constant increase in speed. Obviously there's a stopping point since we can't just keep getting better, so that's GL3.
The primals disappear at certain points. I don't see any way we could still have any momentum waiting around for 5 seconds. So we've got to build that back up.

I hate it, and it's great like that. I feel like a fighter being forced to put my fists down for a second.
Then it's all the more sweeter and I'm at GL3 in overdrive again. It only feels like overdrive BECAUSE you cooldown so easily.

I understand that may not change how you feel.
But I like it. I don't see why it should change when the damage balance is there. People can learn to appreciate it for what it is, can't they?
I certainly do. I like building back up from nothing. I like sometimes avoiding having to do that with skill as well.

I really hope they don't change it.
The OP changes might as well remove GL3 completely and just give us a trait that increases damage by 21% and skill speed by 15%.
Even if it dropped GL one stack at a time, it'd be the same. Plus it doesn't make sense.
When you lose momentum like in a fight like that, you lose it all. Your fists are building momentum.
If you're not hitting anything you're not slowing down, you ARE at a halt.