The Monk Temple

[Allyrion]

Critical Hit Rate is weighted at 1 and Skill Speed at .5

Once there is a better formula for how Skill Speed reduces GCD that may change, but not by enough to change the overall result

(I was told 100ss for .1gcd and 100 crit for 8% crit)

I did some calculations based on this quote. I sure that SS formula is right, not sure about the crit.


I would need 45 more SS to get to 497. What would that get me? An extra GCD (that would be the ultimate goal).
How often? Every 50 attacks, I get one extra.
That's 2 every 100 attacks.

For the same amount of crit, you'll get 3.76.
Every 100 attacks, that means you crit 3 more times (and change, with that 0.76).

Crits don't do double damage. I'm not actually sure what they do. 1.5x maybe?
If it's 1.5, SS would seem to give better returns, because that means every 2 crits is equal to gaining another attack.
You would gain 3 crits, means you gained an attack and a half every 100 attacks as opposed to 2.
The 0.76 is close to 4, but the returns would only be equal at 4.

NOTE: This is an imperfect comparison. And pretty much just napkin math.
Factors:
- Not all attacks do the same damage. If you crit on higher damaging attacks, the returns are better but if you crit on lower ones it's worse than this model.
- Internal Release. I'm not good enough to include this.
- Bootshine should always crit.
EDIT: As Powercow said
- SS does nothing for our auto-attacks, dots or non-GCD skills. This is a lot of our damage.

There are probably more things, but I think this is worth thinking about.

[Powercow]

There are probably more things, but I think this is worth thinking about.

There are more things. About half your damage, including autoattacks, non-GCD skills, and DoTs, do not benefit from SS. So yeah, cut the value of SS in half.

[Allyrion]

There are more things. About half your damage, including autoattacks, non-GCD skills, and DoTs, do not benefit from SS. So yeah, cut the value of SS in half.

This is true. We have a lot of damage from our auto-attacks and dots which benefit from crit but not SS.
If SS made auto-attacks faster (at least) then it might be more even.

Monks have a general crit rate of >20% due to IR. So yeah, cut that CRT value by 20%.

I don't understand. Crit should not have any diminishing returns unless it's over 100.
My example was only in regards to gains from the crit stat. You crit over 20 times in one hundred attacks with, and 3% more crit just adds 3 more crits to that (in the grand scheme of things, obviously, since rng is rng).
It was said earlier that crit increases dps by a set amount regardless of what your crit chance is. Unless over 100.

Bootshine is the only attack that fits this. Not sure how to place it.

[Perthaneus-Magnum]

I did some calculations based on this quote. I sure that SS formula is right, not sure about the crit.


I would need 45 more SS to get to 497. What would that get me? An extra GCD (that would be the ultimate goal).
How often? Every 50 attacks, I get one extra.
That's 2 every 100 attacks.

For the same amount of crit, you'll get 3.76.
Every 100 attacks, that means you crit 3 more times (and change, with that 0.76).

Crit rate is a CHANCE at a crit. Just because your crit rate is 13% doesn't mean you will hit 13 crits out of 100. It doesn't work that way.

The skill speed is for an extra move in your rotation before you have to restack GL3. I would recommend 2-3 Impulse Drives from the back for 180 potency each. The highest base potency you can use whenever.

[Naalya-Deix]

Crit rate is a CHANCE at a crit. Just because your crit rate is 13% doesn't mean you will hit 13 crits out of 100. It doesn't work that way.

The skill speed is for an extra move in your rotation before you have to restack GL3. I would recommend 2-3 Impulse Drives from the back for 180 potency each. The highest base potency you can use whenever.

Yeah, this is probabilities, but this is how you calculate % based stat however. Otherwise you are doing meta probabilities and so, kind of philosophy. And with 490+ SS, you'll don't have so much crit / det in 90 ilvl item.
Plus, ID vs Rear rotation is :

BS > TrS > SP > DK ...
vs
ID > ID > ID > DK ...

1) BS vs ID : 195 vs 180 = 15 delta. An ID crit will be 270. 270 - 195 = 75. 75 / 15 = 5 => You need 1 crit out of 5 ID for ID to be more DPS in a long time run. As you said, Crit is % so you need ~ 25% crit for it to be better which is impossible with a SS build
2) TrS vs ID : no debate. Ok, you'll gain more Tp buffering with TrS
3) ID vs SP: equal

So you win in fact one ID. Which brings you to the best rotation : BS > ID > ID > TwS > SP> DK > ... but this leaves you with only 2 sec left on GL3 to fade, so careful especially with OGCD skills delays (yeah don't speak about "off gcd" this is no real off gcd and you lose about 0.3 sec with them). I use this rotation for burst phase, Flank / Rear rotation for long time run (TP management and lot of moves ...). But in fact, this makes me sad TrS is not as good as ID. I think there could be improvement with this skill.

[Perthaneus-Magnum]

Yeah, this is probabilities, but this is how you calculate % based stat however. Otherwise you are doing meta probabilities and so, kind of philosophy. And with 490+ SS, you'll don't have so much crit / det in 90 ilvl item.

But that's the thing...if two people do the same calculation based on a RATE, then they will get different results. Just because one person got these numbers when they were using crit rate, etc doesn't mean that someone else will get the same equal results.

[Naalya-Deix]

But that's the thing...if two people do the same calculation based on a RATE, then they will get different results. Just because one person got these numbers when they were using crit rate, etc doesn't mean that someone else will get the same equal results.

In empirical way for sure, that's why you are forced to base your calculations on a common referential / model. And as rate as it is there is two fact with crit :

- On a long run, probabilities will converge
- On a short run, your SS build will likely be "more optimal" than in a long run, but EACH crit will be more efficient (espacially combined with lot of Det).

[Perthaneus-Magnum]

Plus, ID vs Rear rotation is : BS > TrS > SP > DK ...

I wasn't referring to the main rotation. I was actually meaning: BS > TrS > ID > ID > ID> SP > DK

These are the kind of rotations I am referring to.....without losing DK or TwS buff.

[NoctisUmbra]

I wasn't referring to the main rotation. I was actually meaning: BS > TrS > ID > ID > ID> SP > DK

These are the kind of rotations I am referring to.....without losing DK or TwS buff.

You've got TrS listed in there... and you're also stuffing 3 IDs... yet you talk of not losing TwS. Impossible.

If you don't use TrS, then you can stuff those IDs in there with enough SS to maintain TwS, but otherwise nope.

Honestly, SS is currently a shit stat to focus on as MNK. The amount you inevitably get through itemization is sufficient, even provided you focus on crit/det. Itemization doesn't allow you to fully min max any of those sub stats. Thus, granted that none of them are particularly low, using what influence we have to stack crit or det gives better results than SS.

[Allyrion]

snip

That's exactly what probability means! Though 13 out of 100 may be an exaggeration, but 130 out of 1000 or 1300 out of 10,000 is not. The longer the sample goes on, the more the probability matches the percent and loses its RNG component.
On games with more reliable parsing than this one, crit works the same way (chance on each hit). In those games, your overall crit chance always matches your individual crit chance. Why? Because it always balances out. Even in this game's parsing, your crit chance does not vary that much.

You flip a coin 1000 times. How many do you think you'll get heads? It will always be very close to 500.

Crit is not as random as you think it is.