[dev1080] Ifrit battle

[Peregrine]

That's assuming Emulate will work as well on it as it does on other things. That blue fire could have different elemental properties. Also assuming they don't "fix" emulate.

Also Ifrit could likely have a number of physical attacks in addition to anything with a magical affinity.

Assuming anything, the solution will be to either stack archers against it or stack thaumaturges. Plus or minus a token glad. The difficulty in adding epic battles is that the game's not balanced enough to handle that maturely.

Pugilists, lancers, and marauders will be told to stay home if that fight is as hard as everyone hopes it will be. The first youtube bragging videos "First Ifrit kill" "fastest Ifrit kill"...will be a pack of archers or thaumaturges, almost guaranteed. Can almost guarantee to you how the fight goes.

Bufff up. They'll immediately take off more HP than most setups even live long enough to take off with multishot and spamming weaponskills from that tp, or chainspellign shadowsear. They'll wail on it for another 5 minutes if they can. If they can't the glad will run it around the room while they DoT and ranged attack it, then they just multishot/chainspell again when it goes into berserk mode at 20% and effectively just disable the berserk mode that kills everyone else.

That's not innovation and effort. That's horribly derivative and expected. It still amuses me that we all pretend we DON'T have these plans all worked out already, and aren't just waiting on an excuse to hold job setups up on a pedestal of accomplishment. You all know as well as I do that difficult content will be sidestepped here by utilizing the same three jobs, and that a party of glad, mrd, lnc, pug, con, con, thm is screwed if hard content comes up. Tell the mrd, lnc, pug and at least one of the cons to take a rain check and make the party glad arc arc arc arc thm thm thm. There. MUCH better. Right?

Don't feel bad for feeling better about the 2nd setup. It's the developers' faults.

We already know the solutions to any challenging content they have up their sleeves unless it's something the industry hasn't seen yet. Any traditional challenge can be easily solved with a combination of gladiators, archers, and thaumaturges.

If the thaumaturge and archer fails the ifrit fight more than twice with a balanced setup, they're going to take each other for the win and leave you behind. That's how imbalance goes. If they have to choose between sticking with the pugilist and losing, and getting another archer and winning, the pugilist is out of luck.

[Rydin]

Bufff up. They'll immediately take off more HP than most setups even live long enough to take off with multishot and spamming weaponskills from that tp, or chainspellign shadowsear. They'll wail on it for another 5 minutes if they can. If they can't the glad will run it around the room while they DoT and ranged attack it, then they just multishot/chainspell again when it goes into berserk mode at 20% and effectively just disable the berserk mode that kills everyone else.

Unless you're thrown into an instanced battle where Ifrit starts attacking, so you can't "Buff up and pull" or "Buff up and run in"
Raging Strike and Ferocity gets an archer killed... He's out of the instance... Thaum trying to get close enough to cast emulate.. BAM.. one shotted by a physical attack... Out of the instance...

Do we know that will be the way... no... but we don't know that it wont be like it either....
No matter how balanced or unbalanced a game is, I could build a boss that your "perfect Party" couldn't beat
An NM that counters ranged attacks
An NM with very low elemental resistance but SUPER HIGH mind and Mag.def.
A Boss resistant to DoTs
An NM that is healed by DoTs
A MOB that sustains very little damage until you incap a certain part... So starting off with multishot does nothing
A MOB with an ability called "Short Term Memory Loss" that resets everyone's hate to 0
I really could do this all day

[Peregrine]

Unless you're thrown into an instanced battle where Ifrit starts attacking, so you can't "Buff up and pull" or "Buff up and run in"
Raging Strike and Ferocity gets an archer killed... He's out of the instance... Thaum trying to get close enough to cast emulate.. BAM.. one shotted by a physical attack... Out of the instance...

Do we know that will be the way... no... but we don't know that it wont be like it either....
No matter how balanced or unbalanced a game is, I could build a boss that your "perfect Party" couldn't beat
An NM that counters ranged attacks
An NM with very low elemental resistance but SUPER HIGH mind and Mag.def.
A Boss resistant to DoTs
An NM that is healed by DoTs
A MOB that sustains very little damage until you incap a certain part... So starting off with multishot does nothing
A MOB with an ability called "Short Term Memory Loss" that resets everyone's hate to 0
I really could do this all day

You don't design fights that exclude players. You simply don't allow mechanics that perpetually favor the same ones over and over. If you're honestly trying to argue that archers aren't going to have time to stack multishot at the start of fights...lol good luck with that. Desperate straws. Don't even know why you put yourself in that situation of arguing a hopeless position.

Maybe subconsciously as a lancer you think it's not going to happen to your job because you think it's great.

Well, we all think multishot and chainspell shadowsear is better than any of your abilities combined. That's just unfortunate reality.

That you would even say that a thaumaturge would be one-shotted if it tries to get near a NM proves you underestimate the jobs that will end up rendering you useless if allowed to. A thaumaturge can solo the great buffalo and survive its attacks indefinitely, alone. Can you?

Of course you can't.

[Rydin]

You don't design fights that exclude players. You simply don't allow mechanics that perpetually favor the same ones over and over. If you're honestly trying to argue that archers aren't going to have time to stack multishot at the start of fights...lol good luck with that. Desperate straws. Don't even know why you put yourself in that situation of arguing a hopeless position.

Maybe subconsciously as a lancer you think it's not going to happen to your job because you think it's great.

Well, we all think multishot and chainspell shadowsear is better than any of your abilities combined. That's just unfortunate reality.

That you would even say that a thaumaturge would be one-shotted if it tries to get near a NM proves you underestimate the jobs that will end up rendering you useless if allowed to. A thaumaturge can solo the great buffalo and survive its attacks indefinitely, alone. Can you?

Of course you can't.

I happen to be a thaum... and a Glad... And a lancer, and a pugilist... and a maruader, and in about a month, a capped archer and conj....
NMs are always made to not exclude certain classes, but to let certain classes shine...
A good way to do this would be to make NMs that needed incaps to stop their devastating party wiping moves or even to do damage at all. Since not every class has every incap, that would provide some much needed balance...
Also, I'd say all the classes will see some much needed change in the near future anyway