WAR in BC. Do we need it?

[Giantbane]

We are much better dungeon tanks than PLDs.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. With PLD resiliency, the healer is likely going to be a little less stressed for heals so they can DPS.

And our DPS advantage only shines when we have maim and storm's eye up, which requires a threat ramp up time to achieve and doesn't mesh well with our threat holding abilities (overpower/brutal combo). PLD is just what they are straight out of the box, so I don't know if we have any inherent advantages when moving from group to group for quick clears. We may kill the boss a little faster on any boss where the PLD needs to stay in shield oath and can't get by with sword oath.

[Derza]

I'm not sure that's entirely true. With PLD resiliency, the healer is likely going to be a little less stressed for heals so they can DPS.

And our DPS advantage only shines when we have maim and storm's eye up, which requires a threat ramp up time to achieve and doesn't mesh well with our threat holding abilities (overpower/brutal combo). PLD is just what they are straight out of the box, so I don't know if we have any inherent advantages when moving from group to group for quick clears. We may kill the boss a little faster on any boss where the PLD needs to stay in shield oath and can't get by with sword oath.

Warriors are better 4 man dungeon tanks because they require LESS healing than paladins when the incoming DPS is lower than 300-400 dps (depending on how damage focused the warrior is gear wise - aswell as using IB often). So not only do warriors do slightly more DPS they also require less healing in most 4 man dungeon situations. Warriors start to fall way behind when it comes to most 8 man content (well really just HM titan and most of Coil - and the gap can get huge)

[Gamemako]

Warriors are better 4 man dungeon tanks because they require LESS healing than paladins when the incoming DPS is lower than 300-400 dps (depending on how damage focused the warrior is gear wise - aswell as using IB often).

In a realistic-case scenario (3 IB per minute, 20% overheal per IB), the most strength-built WAR is overtaken by PLD in total time-weighted mitigation at around 360 DPS. A VIT-focused WAR is overtaken around 300 DPS. Perfect IB spam (assume zero overheal, 4 uses per minute) to around 390 for VIT and 525 for STR. This includes nearly every ability -- a few were neglected for poor data and extremely limited effect (Featherfoot vs. Bulwark, differences in cross-class Awareness, Convalesce, Mercy Stroke, Foresight). Note, however, that there isn't really any content for this. AK and TWP are epic facerolls by the time you get to the gear used in this comparison. You will be overgeared for AK by the time you hit the lower-heal case. The difference is going to be pretty small either way in 4-man content.

[Giantbane]

Warriors are better 4 man dungeon tanks because they require LESS healing than paladins when the incoming DPS is lower than 300-400 dps (depending on how damage focused the warrior is gear wise - aswell as using IB often). So not only do warriors do slightly more DPS they also require less healing in most 4 man dungeon situations. Warriors start to fall way behind when it comes to most 8 man content (well really just HM titan and most of Coil - and the gap can get huge)

In a real world scenario, you're not going to be able to IB much save from infuriate because you'll be doing flash/overpower a lot on trash packs. Hell, you'll be lucky if you even get to use your maim combo much if you're trying to hold threat from relic/relic+1 DPS. So 4 man content doesn't seem so cut and dry to me.

However, overpower is better than flash at AoE agro, so we do have that important advantage at least.