XIV WAR Tanking - Baseline Mitigation and PLD comparison

[Faction]

dude.... esuna is 1 sec cast. the effect is instant. and I have a macro I shoot before my berserk is down tellingthem "Esuna / Leeches can I have it".
its 5 sec/ that's 2 ws; and 2 weaponskill matters in a hate rotation. IE Titan fight you just used up berserk as he flew into the sky and now pacification just happens to be up when he lands....provoke/flash is NOT gonna re establish hate.... healers can die...

The effect of esuna isn't instant, you just said so yourself. It's pretty much the most flagrant waste of effort in all of the game, I mean, you just used berserk. How could you possibly be riding enmity that close after 20 seconds of berserk? In addition you're wasting your healers global cooldowns and possibly more time if he's actually holding his gcd to get the esuna off asap, if he's actually getting it immediately like you try to imply.

Aside from maybe making the warrior feel special because he gets to use an extra weapon skill, this is the most inconsequential of all the inconsequential warrior things, right up there with people who say that cross class mantra will make a difference ever.

IE Titan fight you just used up berserk as he flew into the sky and now pacification just happens to be up when he lands....provoke/flash is NOT gonna re establish hate

There's no threat wipe on titan, and if there was, why would you blow berserk and pacify yourself at such a bad time anyway?

[javid]

Difficult cumbersome, annoying, whatever you wanna call all these warrior mechanics....there IS a best maxing DPS or DEF way to rotate them.

Unchained; useful during Titan Heart Phase as main tank or off tank. How? The key is to go into the start of heart phase with Wrath 5. Titan lands; he's mad, look him in the eye; tell him you're sorry; BUT YOU GOT MORE ASS WHOPPIN COMIN
(assuming you're not in a rock....)
Brutal Swing
Heavy Swing
Unchained
Berserk/ Internal release (DON'T DO BOTH AT ONCE B/C TITAN HEART PHASE IS 65 DPS SEC LONG & Better to use Berserk last for the 5 second you'd lose without esuna)
Infuriate
Inner Beast
complete a rotation (maim, storm or skull sunder, butcher)
vengence
Heavy Swing
complete a rotation (maim/skull)
berserk
Inner Beast
(if you're off tank pop off defiance)
Brutal Swing
Mercy Stroke
etc. if needed


If you chose Berserk first time around right before Pacification hit Brutal Swing there instead as the skill won't stop.

Back when i had my str at 411 Full Party Titan; off tank I hit two 1014ish with Butcher's Block & Storm's Eye using that rotation.


The Point of unchained is to give a Warrior tank a few seconds to go DPS without giving up the ability to build wrath (critcal and hp buff andheals).

[javid]

@Faction





no threat wipe...


any ways I just said....BEFORE MY BERSERK IS DOOOOWWWWN....re read please.

Second on Titan he Jumps in and out base on his HP levels; so unless you're really watching his HP levels to guage if you should use abilities like Berserk to max your Inner Beast absorbs; it is very possible that you can que a skill and not get the remaing benefits of that skill before he Jumps.

It happens



Had a party with lots of relics (magesx2, dragoon, monk; others had primals). We zerk Titan....no limit break for the heart; just straight zerk!! Those Jump rotations from start to Heart phase had to be less than 5 minute; Because on his Second phase I que unchained and by his heart phase unchained wasn't ready..... (3 min recast).

Phase 1 doesn't last 1 min... unless you're party is just auto attacking
Phase 2 maybe 45-50 sec longest with poor dps
Phase 3 is longer since he really tries to fit in 3 bomb formations (Doesn't work though if you Dps fast)
Heart Time....

[Tanaya]

Personally, I always Esuna the Pacification on berserk because it annoys the hell out of me whenever I play WAR myself.

It's a 0.99 second cast for little MP, so I like doing it.

[Anienai]

Personally, I always Esuna the Pacification on berserk because it annoys the hell out of me whenever I play WAR myself.

It's a 0.99 second cast for little MP, so I like doing it.

Tanaya for President!!!

[VahnValbosce]

Berserk is nowhere near powerful enough to warrant the pacify at the end of it's effect. It's a pretty great example of the terrible design that plagues this game. Fight or Flight gives more damage AND has no downside.



Ok let's talk about esuna on the pacify

1) Healer has to sit there with gcd clear, ready to cleanse the pacify.
2) Healer uses esuna, the animation plays, pacify is finally registered as being cured
3) In exchange for this, you get a whole ONE EXTRA ABILITY OFF because of the delay on esuna.

How is a tank getting to use one extra weapon skill worth even remotely worth all of that bother?

Because everything to you is negative and wrong, and there is nothing positive. Period.

[Faction]

Because everything to you is negative and wrong, and there is nothing positive. Period.

Isn't it funny how one side presents objective facts and all the other has is crap like this?

[Lusny]

Ok, this is my result of last night.

I(WHM) went to CoB turn 1 with 2 pally tank. My healing partner was another WHM.
When pally tanking bosses(after split), we had no problem to heal tanks and group over heal until finish(mana was 3k+ without mana song).

However, our DPS was not enough and 1 pally had to go. We've got warrior tank and equip was not much different with bailed pally.
I was heal warrior after boss split. Result was.....horrible.
was very very hard to handle warrior hp without support heal from another WHM. I need to spam cure2 and cant heal group.
Needed heal shower on warrior to make survive him. Other WHM heal his tank and my warrior. We had no time to heal DPS and DPS died 1 by 1 bcz couldnt get heal from us. Out of my mana with mana song and other healer too.

We made conversation after gave up turn 1...If tank was pally, we could get that snake. Problem was we couldnt do group over heal because had to heal shower warrior. Everyone agreed it.

[Lusny]

(damn, stupid 1000 words limit)

Personally, I dont like warrior tank because heal is harder than pally and its goes more harder and harder when mobs are getting stronger. Even their HP is more than pally, it doesnt matter. Much HP? so what? getting more dmg and useless defensive CDs. DPS is better than pally? so what? anyway, tank's DPS is not much help to group overall DPS.

Point of healer's view, warrior defensive CDs are 'NO' help to healers. That is just SELF SATISFY CDs. Nothing help to party.
To me, warrior is just mana sponge. I really dont want group with warriors.

[Judge_Xero]

Because PLD's Shield Oath and Defensive Skills scale against damage regardless of gear, I think that's why Paladin seems so OP compared to Warrior.
What will Paladin see from the best gear? More HP, a bit more Defens, slightly better block and parry, maybe a little more enmity generation from the STR already on gear? Most importantly it will not see any extra benefit from its existing defensive buffs.
So let’s take a look at Warrior using AF2, Relic 2 and end game jewelry, because Warrior’s main defense is its offense, which it can only get from gear equal to the content being challenged (player skill aside)
I did a spec sheet on what my characters stats would be in full endgame gear (Hero, Alagan etc)

Bravura + 1

STR 451
VIT 395
ACC 429
CRIT 379
Parry 466
DET 263
Skill Speed 393

Using damage testing and cross referencing it to these stats here’s what I came up with.
Warrior HP ~ 6300
Average Inner Beast - 1632 HP Recovered @ 544 Damage (Maim, Storm’s Eye)

~ 106 SHPS using only Inner Beast and double Inner Beast @ 60 second intervals
~ 140 SHPS including other CD’s (Berserk, Inner Release, Second Wind, Thrill)
~ Bloodbath would account for ~ 13 SHPS (including AA damage)
~ Infuriate Buff would account for ~ 56 HPS (Average 2k heal @ 7% Average Wrath)

So ~ 209 Damage Mitigation per second fully geared.

Long story short. Still not that effective compared to Paladin.