XIV WAR Tanking - Baseline Mitigation and PLD comparison

[Judge_Xero]

Mitigate DPS.

Again, great post. That's a great way to equally compare both classes in order to see where Warrior is lacking, to see if it's even possible to bring it up to snuff with Paladin.

My Warrior testing so far shows using LT Labyrs with 367 STR I will have 57.525 DPS Mitigation (only Inner Beast @ 20s)
With Bravura and ~427 STR it could reach ~78 DPS Mitigation
Depending on Crit% say 50% with stacking Crit Rate you could reach 97.5 DPS Mitigation
Adding Buffs (Maim/Storm's Eye already Included) Berserk, Second Wind, Inner Release etc would push it to ~170 DPS Mitigation - But you would still need it timed to not waste any overheal.
How much would the extra 8% (average) healing account towards damage mitigation? @ 1200 heal per GCD it's ~ 38.4 DPS Mitigation

So between Warrior and the heal bonus it would be ~208 DPS Mitigation, which still doesn't match Paladin's max of 300 given that that's accurate.

That would be sacrificing enough HP that Warrior in Defiance would have about the same HP as Paladin.

Crit Rate Testing would need to be done to see how it scales on Inner Beast (I'm probably being generous @ 50% with Crit Gear on Inner Beast) + Average HPS would greatly infuence the results 1200 @ 2.5s = 38.4 and 2000 @ 2.5 = 64

[Viridiana]

EDIT:OH MY GOD, YES YOU CAN PARRY MAGIC. GO FIGHT AN ELEMENTAL.

Like so?

Ball's in your court.

[Nonohana]

Really great post, I read everything careful. I tanslate first two posts into Japanese in lodestone, it's really worth reading so do translating, have to say thank you, and I must apologize for translating without notice.
In my view, the point is from average monster dps, PLD is (and should be) always better tank, and what we can read from your post is it is really critical for WAR when to use Inner Beast as counteract. (As Hachiko give exception so many times.)

Although I have to collect one thing.

Actually in part of The other aspect of Inner Beast usage: Dropping Wrath Stacks. , you have to solve function with not MONSTER DPS, we need HEALER HPS here, and that's refers to conclude that you never ever need to use Inner Beast for average heal during you have 2 healers. On the other hand single healer if do not done that much heal(heal also scale up slow, well, HPS grows looks like better than DPS though) than Inner Beast always looks effective, but as long as Inner Beast is only Heal Burst, we have to think if it's real effective way of IB uses because with low monster dps it's nearly overheal ourselves all the time. It's silly talking about average HPS with IB Heal. WAR has wavy HPS, is what it is. We have to make counter routine for every hi-end game.

Only thing that WAR better than PLD is Heal Burst(... and getting enmity). Every boss looks like having wavy DPS routine; Damage Burst always happen in specific time.(Except there's one like Caduceus stack buffs, or multiple mob adds) So WAR should act like negate mob's damage burst. WAR do heal burst in short cycle(20-22.5, double heal burst every 60 sec, that's fairly short cycle), but we cannot act such way without knowledge. So my understand of Yoshi-p's L2P is "learn every single tricks of endgames."
For example, who cares other than table flip in Titan? And table filps only come every 30sec, and worst situations only come every 60sec(table flip after bomb). If we do not consider such routine and total party's dps, than PLD always win. But it's not directly meaning WAR cannot be a stable, viable tank.


Bahamut and WAR
Maybe the biggest problem we have in Bahamut is that we still face to problems as if we have to face to super high monster DPS. I'm not experienced, trained Bahamut player myself, so I'm just guessing. Furthermore, many of us do not have collect ILV gears for Bahamut, and that's relative buff up PLD against WAR. Yes, if we put WAR and PLD into math with any functional X than PLD always win after cross over some threshold. So I wonder we have collect factors to solve those math. Even Titan we know if we have collect gears it's not that much problem which of PLD or WAR gonna MT(We should have both PLD and WAR for Rage of Halone and Storm's Eye), so why not Bahamut?

It's theoretically unfair if compare PLD and WAR by average DPS, because PLD cuts every damage in linear scale, and, it should be balanced by level design if SE wants to create those 2 totally different designed tanks.

I read slow, so I didn't(actually couldn't) read this thread from 4 to 9 pages before I post. If someone already mentioned same ideas I apologize.
I really enjoyed your post, look forward to read Hachiko's another analysis report, and, thanks again.

[Jadi]

Um.. why does WAR *need* to be equal to PLD? It's a hybrid job it's not supposed to be a pld clone. If we had 3 tanks should they all be equal? Is NIN equal to PLD in XI?

I think you guys are missing the point.. Warrior is an awesome job, you should feel good about it being one because you can do a lot of things a PLD can't and as content becomes more varied you will see that.

[Gamemako]

It's a hybrid job

No, it's not. It's an equal DPS to PLD when not using tanking stances. It is not meant to do anything but tank.

[Maelwys]

Um.. why does WAR *need* to be equal to PLD? It's a hybrid job it's not supposed to be a pld clone.

No, it's not. It's an equal DPS to PLD when not using tanking stances. It is not meant to do anything but tank.

This.

WAR and PLD are both tank jobs. MRD is actually closer to a hybrid role, as it has less survivability but higher potential DPS than WAR due to the greater selection of cross-class skills.

WAR has large amounts of flat mitigation. It's better than PLD for lower levels of incoming damage or for encounters where there is little or no allied healing available (e.g. Light Parties or Soloing).
PLD has large amounts of scaling mitigation. It's better than WAR in situations where incoming damage is higher and/or there are allied heals (e.g. Large Parties and/or endgame raids)

In current content, this translates to PLD being the preferred tank for endgame situations.

But it's worth stating that these are still the very early days of FFXIV ARR. So in the future this could change... WAR could get a buff, PLD could get a nerf, or there could be content released containing hard encounters with foes that deal unresistable damage. WAR's larger HP pool and self-healing would give it a noticable edge in these situations over PLD, even at endgame. The ideal balance may well eventually end up being for large parties to bring along both a WAR AND a PLD, because one has an edge over the other for dealing with different types of content... much like bringing both a WHM (for AoE heals) and a SCH (for shields) can currently be better than bringing two of the same class.

[HiirNoivl]

Since when was SMN an underdog job....SMN is ridiculously good and I haven't seen anyone who actually knows how to play well say otherwise.



I await your response where you try to argue for WARs superiority because you did fine in Turn 3 coil, even though Turn 3 is literally nothing but trash mobs and doesn't even have a boss.

Just keep raising that bar and I'll keep going over it. ^_^

Bahamut and WAR
Maybe the biggest problem we have in Bahamut is that we still face to problems as if we have to face to super high monster DPS. .

Right what WAR tanks have to do is try to overcome this issue. There's two ways to do this, 1 way which has already met success is raising HP as high as possible. People say for Turn IV you need at least 7500. But mitigation still needs to be done. My next goal is to reach that high number and simultaneously raise my mitigation and damage output. I'm not sure how high I'll be able to do on damage of course, but it's obvious already that it's needed.

[Leiron]

My next goal is to reach that high number and simultaneously raise my mitigation and damage output. I'm not sure how high I'll be able to do on damage of course, but it's obvious already that it's needed.

Unless you are somehow hotloading coding into the game I doubt you can do either of those things.

[Maelwys]

Unless you are somehow hotloading coding into the game I doubt you can do either of those things.

Technically there was no time limit mentioned, so "waiting for the 2.1 patch in order to get Crystal Tower gear" might count...

And there's always a little room for a little more practice.

[Kaalan]

Technically there was no time limit mentioned, so "waiting for the 2.1 patch in order to get Crystal Tower gear" might count...

And there's always a little room for a little more practice.

Yeah well you can have your full AF+1 by the time CT is out so...