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  1. 10-03-2013 12:44 PM

  2. #2
    Player
    Giantbane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,534
    Character
    Adol Giantbane
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Lhun View Post
    And yes, shield block is GREAT. But they need it because Knight is all about mitigating away damage. That's what they do. It also requires ZERO effort, it just happens.
    Also, if you shield block, you do NOT proc the chance to parry. If you unequipped a shield, you parry more, because first game checks for:

    Chance to block: Yes/No Yes? Block. Parry does not happen.

    Chance to block: Yes/No No? => Chance to Parry yes/no? No? => Chance to dodge yes/no? no? => Chance for mob crit you? Yes/no ?
    Those things happen in that order. IF any of those things go off first, NONE OF THE THINGS UNDER HAPPEN.

    So no shield, first thing that happens, is chance to parry. War gets big Parry+. Think about it.
    And you seriously think that's going to tilt the results to make WAR and PLD equal?
    (5)
    Last edited by Giantbane; 10-03-2013 at 01:18 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Parasite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    224
    Character
    Parasite Arokh'aerr
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    A PLD in our FC mentioned during a Titan run I was listening to in the Voice chat that he only has to do his 1..2..3.. combo over and over to keep aggro, and only has to use a cooldown here and there on the table flip to be absolutely sure so he can continue eating his supper while tanking.. (obviously standing with one leg in the air at the edge of the platform so many bomb setups wouldnt hit him, only needing to move an inch here and there, but thats not the problem to discuss as a warrior can do this as well.)

    I had to work like an idiot with self heals and what not to stay alive.

    If a warrior has to work hard to achieve the same result as a pld can with one hand on his food and the other hand on the keyboard, basically semi-afk, something needs to be fixed imo. Yeah a perfectly played warrior might be able to perform as good as a paladin.. But he is no match for a paladin if he plays perfectly instead..
    (6)
    Last edited by Parasite; 10-03-2013 at 01:37 PM.

    - Parasite Arokh'aerr - Dark Knight! -
    eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1581146

  4. #4
    Player
    ChriskoOnAnotherLevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    55
    Character
    Chris Kyo
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2881036/

    Lhun, please just be silent. You have little to no experience to warrant any of what you are posting.

    Almost everything that was left out of the original post is so minor that is the entire reason it was left out.

    Warrior is inferior get it into your brain, Yes i understand you feel betrayed that the job you leveled sucks, many of us do.

    AND yes due to the nature of speed runs and such, it is quite easy to OVER GEAR content and say warrior is viable just fine...

    But information like the original post is what gets things balanced in the future.
    (9)

  5. #5
    Player
    SpookyGhost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    3,403
    Character
    Kori Fleming
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by ChriskoOnAnotherLevel View Post
    Warrior is inferior get it into your brain, Yes i understand you feel betrayed that the job you leveled sucks, many of us do.
    Being inferior and sucking are two different things. WAR doesn't suck, it is just lackluster in some areas that it should excel at (the most obvious one being self heals). PLD is easier on the healers but does less damage over time while tanking, WAR does more damage over time while being more stressful on the healers. If you want a comfortable fight that may last longer if your DPS isn't balls to the wall, then you'd want PLD. If you want a quick and dirty run of that same fight, you want WAR. Titan is a prime example of this, as PLD are the preferred choice for him as it is guaranteed they won't die unless they're either the worst PLD ever or the DPS doesn't break the heart. However, if your team plays the fight correctly, a WAR can make Titan go down all the more quickly, even being able to contribute burst damage to the heart.

    Past Titan, we are inferior for most of the turns of Coil. In some instances it's better to have us, in some it's not. Regardless, PLD is the safe way to play so that's why you'll see mostly 2x PLD in Coil runs. So, yes, at Coil and possibly Titan we are outclassed. This does not mean we suck. :]
    (0)

  6. 10-03-2013 02:18 PM

  7. #7
    Player
    Rios-Drakoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    129
    Character
    Rios Drakoon
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    i did my own Math littlebit. lets see what you think:

    Boss fight 200k dmg in 5min.

    Lets say IB heals everytime for 1300. we can use it 4 times in One Minute, so, abou 20 times.

    20x 1300 = 26'000 Selfheal.

    Bloodbath heals you how much? 1100 HP in 30sec? lets be nice and say 1500HP, Bloodbath can be used in 5min 3 times

    3x 1500 = 4500

    i dont really Count stormspath, cuz debuff on Boss is more important, but lets just say once every 30sec, how much heal Stormspath? 100-150, lets say 130.

    10x 130 = 1300.

    So, we have from our 3 selfheal abilities a Total Heal from 31'800HP Selfheal. In 5 Minute.

    so we heal about 15,9% from the Total dmg ourself up.

    200'000dmg in 5min means 666 DpS, so lets use a 2,5sec Attack Speed, then we have 1666dmg all 2,5sec.

    Paladin take all the time "only" 1333dmg (Shield Oath 20% dmg reduce) so he reduce in 5min fight, only with his Tank Stance, about, 39'960dmg.
    Then he can use for 20sec 90sec CD his other 20% dmg reduce, he can use Rampage 3 times, so again, 8000dmg reduce
    Then he can use Sentinel for 10sec 180sec CD (if he use it at the beginn he can turn it on twice) again about 6000dmg reduce.
    and his mighty Hallowed Ground 10sec, 420sec CD, so he can use it once, that means 6700dmg reduce.
    He has also his Block Abilitie 15sec, 180sec CD (if he use at at the beginn he can turn it on twice, and Block = 20-24% dmg reduce, les Count with 20% and a Chance by 50%) that will be about 12'000dmg reduce.

    lets Count

    Total:

    72'660 dmg reduce in 5min fight, thats about 36% dmg reduce.


    So, maybe i did something wrong with my Math, but for me it seems, Healer have more then just "Little" harder time with Warrior Tank.

    Sure i didnt Count Featherfoot, i didnt Count Convalsence (wich Paladin has 30% Bonus from it) i even Count Blockrate from Pala only with 50% (even if his buff give a Bonus 60% more Chance)

    But at the end, it will be the same. Warrior Need alot more Heal.

    And aslong Warrior Need more Heal then a Paladin, solong we will be a "burden" for our Group and our Healer. and thats the MAINPOINT here, in all These Threads.


    ps. sorry for my english.
    (4)

  8. 10-03-2013 03:08 PM

  9. #9
    Player
    Maelwys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    449
    Character
    Womble O'flaherty
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lhun View Post
    Your math is horrible.
    (snipped)
    35500 healed WHILE doing damage to the mob in the process. In JUST Self heals in JUST 5 minutes
    if you extended that fight by just 1 minute that number jumps to well over 41,000 due to some of our cooldowns being on 2 minute timers
    OK, so what you're saying is... 35500 over 300 seconds, or 41000 over 360 seconds.
    41000/360 = Maximum average of 113 DPS mitigated by WAR's self-healing.


    PLD's Shield Oath BY ITSELF cuts incoming damage by 20%, so the Break even point for PLD Shield Oath > WAR Self-Healing would be 113/0.2 = anything above 565 DPS received.

    The numbers Hachiko quoted above give a ~16% incoming mitigation number for PLD on top of Shield Oath via all PLD's active mitigation abilities.

    How hard do endgame mobs hit? (Serious question)

    Both WAR and PLD can use Convalescence and Foresight and Bloodbath.
    Both can Parry. PLD can also Shield Block.
    Both have Stuns.
    WAR can use Featherfoot and Holmgang.
    PLD can use Sentinel and Rampart and Bulwark and Hallowed Ground and Rage of Halone's debuff (and Stoneskin/Cure/Protect...)

    Terabyt3 has it right above - I'm genuinely confused as to how you're claiming that WAR's static levels of damage mitigation (the maximum amount of HP you can recover per second will remain largely the same regardless of how much damage you are taking. At low levels of incoming damage you are effectively immortal, but as more damage is received you become much worse off) can make up for PLD's scaling mitigation (the % of damage mitigated remains constant, so greater levels of incoming damage results in greater amounts of damage being mitigated)....?
    (0)
    Last edited by Maelwys; 10-03-2013 at 10:09 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Rios-Drakoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    129
    Character
    Rios Drakoon
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lhun View Post
    Your math is horrible. 3 bonus to heal abilities? Last I checked we get 6.

    You completely forgot about Thrill of Battle which is 1000+ HP every 120 seconds.
    You completely forgot about the utility to stun for 5 SOLID SECONDS every 30 seconds and the minimum 15.7% parry rate for a minimum of 23% damage reduction at level 50 with no good gear and AF.
    You used stormspath and calculated it out (NO ONE WOULD EVER DO THIS). THE ONLY GOOD use of PATH at 50, is to use as the first of three combos during bloodbath to get 75% damage as health, additional wrath, and MAIM.
    You completely forgot about Berzerk + Second Wind (which is 500 minimum every 120 seconds, or if you rather, 500 every 120, 360+ every 90)
    You completely forgot about Foresite, and it's 20% defense buff, which we can use as often as Rampart, during all of this, and it stacks with protect.
    And your numbers for actual reduction INCLUDED BLOCK, but you didn't include PARRY FROM WAR.
    True, i forgot Thrill of Battle.
    Stun? can i Stun Titan or Garuda?
    Like i said, i didnt know what Parry Rate we have, thats why i did not Count. Paladin have also a Blockrate, the Skill increase it with 60% more, so they would have what? 75% for 15sec? Do Paladin has Parry also or only Block?
    I didnt Count Foresight because i did not know, how much dmg reduce 20% defense is, and beside... doesnt matter, because Paladin can use it too, he has better Convalsence, he can use Bloodbath.
    and even if we Count everything, and everything also by Paladin. result will be the same. Or even worse for Warrior.

    Do you really think, your healer feels something, when teh mob attacks you everytime with 1666dmg, and you heal yourself up with 20-90 with Bloodbath with every Hit/Dot?
    (0)

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