XIV WAR Tanking - Baseline Mitigation and PLD comparison

[Judge_Xero]

Great write up OP very nice.

The only question I have atm is about your DPS #'s from bosses.

I was watching some fights to get an idea about what their attack patterns were and their damage over 20s,60s intervals.

For instance on Cadaceus it was around 15000 +/- 3000 over a 60 second span. Worst case scenario 300 DPS.
As the DPS will scale with our current gear, what are the realistic numbers of the other Endgame fights, in the Lvl i70-i90 range.

[Giantbane]

And yes, shield block is GREAT. But they need it because Knight is all about mitigating away damage. That's what they do. It also requires ZERO effort, it just happens.
Also, if you shield block, you do NOT proc the chance to parry. If you unequipped a shield, you parry more, because first game checks for:

Chance to block: Yes/No Yes? Block. Parry does not happen.

Chance to block: Yes/No No? => Chance to Parry yes/no? No? => Chance to dodge yes/no? no? => Chance for mob crit you? Yes/no ?
Those things happen in that order. IF any of those things go off first, NONE OF THE THINGS UNDER HAPPEN.

So no shield, first thing that happens, is chance to parry. War gets big Parry+. Think about it.

And you seriously think that's going to tilt the results to make WAR and PLD equal?

[Parasite]

A PLD in our FC mentioned during a Titan run I was listening to in the Voice chat that he only has to do his 1..2..3.. combo over and over to keep aggro, and only has to use a cooldown here and there on the table flip to be absolutely sure so he can continue eating his supper while tanking.. (obviously standing with one leg in the air at the edge of the platform so many bomb setups wouldnt hit him, only needing to move an inch here and there, but thats not the problem to discuss as a warrior can do this as well.)

I had to work like an idiot with self heals and what not to stay alive.

If a warrior has to work hard to achieve the same result as a pld can with one hand on his food and the other hand on the keyboard, basically semi-afk, something needs to be fixed imo. Yeah a perfectly played warrior might be able to perform as good as a paladin.. But he is no match for a paladin if he plays perfectly instead..

[ChriskoOnAnotherLevel]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2881036/

Lhun, please just be silent. You have little to no experience to warrant any of what you are posting.

Almost everything that was left out of the original post is so minor that is the entire reason it was left out.

Warrior is inferior get it into your brain, Yes i understand you feel betrayed that the job you leveled sucks, many of us do.

AND yes due to the nature of speed runs and such, it is quite easy to OVER GEAR content and say warrior is viable just fine...

But information like the original post is what gets things balanced in the future.

[SpookyGhost]

Warrior is inferior get it into your brain, Yes i understand you feel betrayed that the job you leveled sucks, many of us do.

Being inferior and sucking are two different things. WAR doesn't suck, it is just lackluster in some areas that it should excel at (the most obvious one being self heals). PLD is easier on the healers but does less damage over time while tanking, WAR does more damage over time while being more stressful on the healers. If you want a comfortable fight that may last longer if your DPS isn't balls to the wall, then you'd want PLD. If you want a quick and dirty run of that same fight, you want WAR. Titan is a prime example of this, as PLD are the preferred choice for him as it is guaranteed they won't die unless they're either the worst PLD ever or the DPS doesn't break the heart. However, if your team plays the fight correctly, a WAR can make Titan go down all the more quickly, even being able to contribute burst damage to the heart.

Past Titan, we are inferior for most of the turns of Coil. In some instances it's better to have us, in some it's not. Regardless, PLD is the safe way to play so that's why you'll see mostly 2x PLD in Coil runs. So, yes, at Coil and possibly Titan we are outclassed. This does not mean we suck. :]

[Rios-Drakoon]

i did my own Math littlebit. lets see what you think:

Boss fight 200k dmg in 5min.

Lets say IB heals everytime for 1300. we can use it 4 times in One Minute, so, abou 20 times.

20x 1300 = 26'000 Selfheal.

Bloodbath heals you how much? 1100 HP in 30sec? lets be nice and say 1500HP, Bloodbath can be used in 5min 3 times

3x 1500 = 4500

i dont really Count stormspath, cuz debuff on Boss is more important, but lets just say once every 30sec, how much heal Stormspath? 100-150, lets say 130.

10x 130 = 1300.

So, we have from our 3 selfheal abilities a Total Heal from 31'800HP Selfheal. In 5 Minute.

so we heal about 15,9% from the Total dmg ourself up.

200'000dmg in 5min means 666 DpS, so lets use a 2,5sec Attack Speed, then we have 1666dmg all 2,5sec.

Paladin take all the time "only" 1333dmg (Shield Oath 20% dmg reduce) so he reduce in 5min fight, only with his Tank Stance, about, 39'960dmg.
Then he can use for 20sec 90sec CD his other 20% dmg reduce, he can use Rampage 3 times, so again, 8000dmg reduce
Then he can use Sentinel for 10sec 180sec CD (if he use it at the beginn he can turn it on twice) again about 6000dmg reduce.
and his mighty Hallowed Ground 10sec, 420sec CD, so he can use it once, that means 6700dmg reduce.
He has also his Block Abilitie 15sec, 180sec CD (if he use at at the beginn he can turn it on twice, and Block = 20-24% dmg reduce, les Count with 20% and a Chance by 50%) that will be about 12'000dmg reduce.

lets Count

Total:

72'660 dmg reduce in 5min fight, thats about 36% dmg reduce.


So, maybe i did something wrong with my Math, but for me it seems, Healer have more then just "Little" harder time with Warrior Tank.

Sure i didnt Count Featherfoot, i didnt Count Convalsence (wich Paladin has 30% Bonus from it) i even Count Blockrate from Pala only with 50% (even if his buff give a Bonus 60% more Chance)

But at the end, it will be the same. Warrior Need alot more Heal.

And aslong Warrior Need more Heal then a Paladin, solong we will be a "burden" for our Group and our Healer. and thats the MAINPOINT here, in all These Threads.


ps. sorry for my english.

[Derza]

The current data shows that it works out to 15% overall mitigation OF ALL INCOMING DAMAGE, AVERAGE. The average parry rate from ALL ATTACKS OVERALL is 25% or better.

Huh? How did you get this data? When you parry you take 22-25% less damage, and you can't parry magic attacks. to get a 15% overall damage reduction you would have to parry 60% of the time - and that is if the mob did no magic damage at all. If they are using magic attacks (you can't parry these) your parry chance would need to be well over 60% to come out with a 15% overall damage reduction... Man please think before you post this trash.