Does Anyone Think Crafting is Too Slow?

[Physic]

an idea i had, was that they could make crafting have a 2nd optional mini game per craft, that is more skill based, and the difficulty of the skill based game is multiplied for higher level items. Like imagine if some npc taught you to visualize weaving as tetris. then you could choose to visualize, and the stuff 10 levels ahead would be like super fast tetris. Not saying they should jack tetris, but if they have mini games as an entertaining option, that could work.

The problem with skill based mini games in crafting, is that not everyone has skills, some one may want to be an armorer, but suck at whatever skill based game it has. The system right now is a combination of knowledge and random elements.

I think the issue they keep running into, in this and even in battle, is some people want the systems to be entertaining and skill based, and some people just want to get through with it, building the system for one alienates the other. They need to start adopting a dual progression system, where the player can choose style of play. Just like many ffs have the option for wait or active battle, or how ffxii had the option to micromanage if you wanted to.

[Physic]

I wonder why people are defending something that they willingly admit is boring as hell? The whole point of playing a game is to be entertained right? I have a full-time job already I don't need one in a game.

Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous. Crafting requires the knowledge of elements, astrology and time of the week. In xiv however no thinking whatsoever is needed. The whole thing is disguised as a game that makes anyone "playing" it feel like a drooling retard.

Watching the clouds go by feels more interactive than what XIV calls gameplay.

you are smoking crack, ffxi crafting is not entertaining, and requires a trip to a distant AH. if you want to bring that up you can say that this game requires you to go mine in distant caves with agro monsters to get scale bugs, or kill hungry wolves to get buffalo skins. Knowledge of what element is what direction is not an entertaining facet of crafting, im sorry. Just by the definition of interaction, ffxiv is more interactive, more input of the user that has an effect on the outcome is interactivity, as far as planning, equipping the right gear, and skills to deal with whatever type of craft you are doing, and the results you are trying to get, is way more strategic/knowlege based than letting random do it for you.

You may like ffxi crafting system, but saying it requires more knowlege, is more interactive, or is more fun collecting materials is complete bullshit, and i think you know this.

[EdenT]

I wonder why people are defending something that they willingly admit is boring as hell? The whole point of playing a game is to be entertained right? I have a full-time job already I don't need one in a game.

Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous. Crafting requires the knowledge of elements, astrology and time of the week. In xiv however no thinking whatsoever is needed. The whole thing is disguised as a game that makes anyone "playing" it feel like a drooling retard.

Watching the clouds go by feels more interactive than what XIV calls gameplay.

I played XI since launch and strongly disagree that the system required more in research and adventure. There are plenty of crafting materials in XIV that take some adventuring to obtain and research is again a necessity.

One thing that differs (which I have commented on elsewhere in forums) is that FFXI used to give you in-game clues about what to craft at your current rank etc and it would be nice for XIV to adopt a little of this and bring more info into the game itself. I'd prefer to remain in Eorzea to obtain information than having to alt-tab to a third party site with forced popup advertising. This would increase the level of "Immersion" that everyone keeps talking about.

SE need to understand the power of information. It is the MOST valuable commodity in our human (and Eorzean) existence.

Oh...and any MMO is a full time job if you want to maximise your return. It is not a lucrative enough expedition otherwise...

[EdenT]

...and further on information - I truly believe there would be less people upset with the current crafting setup if they understood more about how the system works.

It was a little while before people discovered the directional link to elements in XI's crafting system. There are probably unknown systems of a similar nature already in place for XIV.

SE are kinda damned either way though...they cannot release too much information about crafting for fear of spoil, and they cannot afford to have too many people in the dark about what actually affects crafting.

Whilst the forums are a great step toward understanding their player base, others are right in the suggestion that empowering the community with a voice can enable a distortion of direction based on the opinions of only those who bother to speak up. I think in-game polling would be nice. Maybe even a mandatory quick feedback poll on the last update each time one installs a new update so that all who play are further encouraged to influence the game, and that influence is closer to what the core community (the people who are actually playing the game and not stubbornly sneering from the sidelines after rage quitting or something) truly desire from this new realm.

[Seif]

you are smoking crack, ffxi crafting is not entertaining, and requires a trip to a distant AH. if you want to bring that up you can say that this game requires you to go mine in distant caves with agro monsters to get scale bugs, or kill hungry wolves to get buffalo skins. Knowledge of what element is what direction is not an entertaining facet of crafting, im sorry. Just by the definition of interaction, ffxiv is more interactive, more input of the user that has an effect on the outcome is interactivity, as far as planning, equipping the right gear, and skills to deal with whatever type of craft you are doing, and the results you are trying to get, is way more strategic/knowlege based than letting random do it for you.

You may like ffxi crafting system, but saying it requires more knowlege, is more interactive, or is more fun collecting materials is complete bullshit, and i think you know this.

Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous.

I guess I should clear that up a bit.
Personally I think crafting in any MMO including XI is horrible. Because it has always been horrible I don't think it should be given a free pass as something that doesn't have to be fun.

Yes I do like crafting in XI more than in XIV but frankly this just means I hate it a bit less.

I don't agree at all that because there is lag SE shouldn't consider adding gameplay to crafting. There are plenty of MMO's out there that require twitch-precision gameplay for good teamwork. Crafting is always a solo activity so that makes it even easier to be made into a lag-free experience.

In general I think the MMO crowd is willing to put up with significantly lower standards than single player games have.
I was pulled into the world of XI because the story makes it feel at times just like a single player game with a real story with a beginning and an ending. When I've looked around for something similar after XI all the games seem like just grind-treadmills with no goal to work towards. When I ask my MMO playing friends if their games have a story with an end that's achievable they just look at me like I'm trying to ask if aliens exist.

This is partly the reason why I'm worried that SE is looking so hard at other MMOs as an example to work towards. They used to be the company that paved the way for something other developers couldn't even dream of.

[EdenT]

I understand what you're saying Seif and Vana'diel had a story that pulled me in too.

I'm gonna have to pull a bit of a defeatist card on this one though and say:

Unfortunately we live in a world of ever-decreasing attention spans, where linear thought is dominant.


SE have to make games for babies now because our planet's governance has been stupefying the whole damned population!

[rekijitsu]

Here is an overall suggestion, re-evaluate how you play games. Instead over over thinking the game try to have fun with it. You guys do not have to spam the same stuff like standered synth or the 1 button. Nor is the game forcing it on you. That is yalls choice. I've been playing this game for a couple weeks and never spamed really.

Completely disagree. 95% of the time you don't need Bold Synth, and I honestly see no purpose in Rapid. Changing up standard synth when it is clearly the best choice for crafting anything non-HQ doesn't make it more dynamic. What makes it dynamic is if the game *forces* you to use the other two in certain situations. Personally, I would like to see White correspond with Standard, Yellow with Rapid, and Red with Bold, giving you something to "look for" and actually give you a choice between Rapid or Standard when its Yellow, or Bold or Standard when it's Red.

Even then though, the animations are slow, and the realism card doesn't fit here because even with the animations as they are, they are too fast compared to real life. You may as well cut down the tedium, it is *not* fun sitting there watching the same thing happen over and over.

I'm glad to see in some cases, the element becomes unstable. This usually only happens if you're leveling off of things too high though. I can see the minigame being fun if you're crafting something equippable, making it a bit exciting but it's just tedious doing it for everything.

One way I see it, is for crafting ingredients for other synths, make the animations happen once, and without a minigame. The minigame is boring when you're doing it all the time, and should really only happen when making an end product. But hey, we have to design the game around preventing botting of course!

[rekijitsu]

Yes, it can be quite risky. ^^;
However, risk increases as you near completion. So if you're trying to increase the quality score in hopes of getting an HQ item it can actually be better to start off your synth with Bold synthesis and then shift to Standard if necessary as you progress.



It depends.

If I'm grinding just to level up a skill, then it's basically tedious and I wish it would go a bit faster. Right now, having a TV or second computer for web surfing nearby is great for times like this.

If I'm actually trying to make something, then it's just right. ^^

But if SE decides to speed it up, I just hope they don't simply keep the same actions and speed them up the way they did with DoL classes. It's now a bit comical to watch.

I pretty much agree with this. I like the mini-game if it were for a really important item... but crafting just to get it up should be faster and more streamlined. As it stands, keeping your crafts on par with your War/Magic classes is pretty much impossible unless you only spend 10% of your online time actually fighting things.

[rekijitsu]

I think the time investment is irrelevant.

The underlining problem is that the mini games are awful.

Fun is fun no matter how long it takes. Boring is boring the first time and every time after.

Currently enjoyment in MMO's come from advancement. One day it will come from activity. It used to be that way, i remember it, i swear.

I would also be okay with it if they found a way to make it fun, but this is Square Enix and Crafting in MMOs we're talking about. Even the best developers in the world haven't made Crafting an enjoyable experience, and really should be treated as something to do on the side, not a chore to keep it on par with your current War/Magic classes to keep the crafts relevant for your use.

At least in old school World of Warcraft, for example, you *could* reasonably keep your crafts up, and what you made *did* come in handy. Nowadays what you craft is useless in that game while leveling, but in FFXIV that is not the case. Since it isn't, I sure would like to be able to use what I'm crafting without spending 90% of my online game time crafting and only 10% doing what I like.

[TheVedis]

I would also be okay with it if they found a way to make it fun, but this is Square Enix and Crafting in MMOs we're talking about. Even the best developers in the world haven't made Crafting an enjoyable experience, and really should be treated as something to do on the side, not a chore to keep it on par with your current War/Magic classes to keep the crafts relevant for your use.

At least in old school World of Warcraft, for example, you *could* reasonably keep your crafts up, and what you made *did* come in handy. Nowadays what you craft is useless in that game while leveling, but in FFXIV that is not the case. Since it isn't, I sure would like to be able to use what I'm crafting without spending 90% of my online game time crafting and only 10% doing what I like.

your enjoyment isnt the same thing others will enjoy
so your 90% crafting and 10% of what you like, could in many others eytes be 10% fighting and 90% what they like

there is a balance in there and alot of people dont realize that crafting isnt as hard as they make it out to be

the animations will probly be sped up more, but i very much doubt the entire process will ever be fully streamlined and "super easy mode" like some people expect it to be