FFXIV Bitter Sweet

[Gilthas]

While I agree with some of the things that you say: leveling is way too fast, crafting is pointless since not only does the best endgame gear come from dungeons without any crafting input (you can't even meld them), the fast leveling makes investing in HQ gear (that many times is actually better than dungeon gear) not worth it.

That being said, I don't agree with many other things you say.

Elemental weaknesses bringing depth to battle is really just a big fallacy. Having played BLM and SCH in FFXI, the only depth that elemental weaknesses brought to that game was tell me which spell I would spam during a fight. And while yes, you could say that in FFXIV I'm using the same spells in every fight, I don't consider FFXI's system better just because in one fight I'm spamming Thunder IV while in another I'm spamming Blizzard IV, because in essence, Thunder IV and Blizzard are mechanistically pretty much the same spell.

I also have to disagree with your assessment that levels 1-49 lack difficulty. I come to this forum and its like everyone is a pro, but then I go into Duty Finder and get parties that wipe on the first Ifrit fight. At most you can say that FFXIV is balanced towards new players instead of the pros.

Your complaint about the lack of immersion is simply full of hyperbole and mainly just a personal view. Yes, the areas are obviously smaller than the FFXI ones. It would be nice if they were bigger (especially so we could have more space for material farming mobs, Banemites anyone?), but I personally like them. But the bigger problem I have with your complaints about immersion: there is no reason why being able to kill stuff your level easily is a bad thing, you just present this as a fact. You also don't really need to fight super high level stuff to get a sense of danger either. I wanted some Antelope Horns, so I picked up my level 20 Archer and went out to kill some level 25 Antelope Stags. Now I was used to being able to just steamroll everything, so imagine my surprise when the first mob killed me, and after that I actually had to pay attention and be careful not to get killed.

Your complaint about AF not being an achievement... I think is kind of stupid. When FFXI was released (in Japan) the level cap was 50 and AF's weren't in the game. So it made more sense for AF to be harder to obtain in FFXI when it was introduced, since it functioned as a kind of "endgame" content. In FFXIV AF is available in the game at release. More importantly, AF+1 already exists and those take a bit more effort to obtain. Your feeling of accomplishment is there, not in the regular AF (though I personally can't wait until I get my AF).

The last thing I'd like to address: yes, FATE's are mind numbingly easy and people flock to that, but they are far from being the only viable way to level. My leveling (after I run out of quests) is mostly done through dungeons which are a lot more fun. Why do people do FATE's then? If you're a DPS you have to wait long times for a party (same thing in FFXI where there was no DF though), while FATE's are constantly up (which isn't a bad thing mind you). But more importantly, people flock to FATE's because they're easy, the same reason why in FFXI we always went for the mobs that were the easiest and fastest to kill. So basically, most people always go for easy, so the only way to stop that would be to make the whole game hard, which would probably lead to a lot of people leaving. Though my bigger issue with this is that you try to tie FATE leveling to people not knowing their jobs, which honestly is true, but making leveling take longer doesn't actually fix that problem either, nor does adding harder mobs or battles (people will just skip those like they did in FFXI). Unless you want to argue that in FFXI everyone at 75 knew how to play their job, and I'll lol to that. If anything, FFXIV's dungeons do a much better job teaching people how to play than FFXI's lower level content ever did, but people prefer the fast and easy FATE grind.

tldr: At one point you make a comment about FFXIV and rose-tinted glasses. I honestly think the same could be said about you and FFXI.

Reached posting limits so:

The reason you see this is because, like I explained. The game is so easy people are not caring to learn. This is why you wipe, or have people who wipe even at low level dungeons. The game is so easy, they go into dungeons thinking its easy, and don't pay attention, or learn. They also are not learning to think on their feet, and hammer in where their spells are, which causes errors,which results in death.

So saying "Oh people die, it must be hard" isn't true.

Your argument here is ridiculous. So people dieing in a fight doesn't mean that it was difficult for them? You say that people don't know what to do because the game is so easy so they don't care. However, what happened in my example was that faced with a situation where they wiped people did learn what to do and we managed to win. like I also mentioned earlier, I come here to this forum and its like everyone is a pro.

So you like the smaller that's your preference, and its fine, but doesn't deter or make what I said any less valid

Yes, but its also not like what you're saying is MORE valid either, you just act like it is.

Also being able to easily kill something your level is a problem, I'm not saying it should be hard hard, but something where you need to pay attention at least. Again, can't make the game to easy or you get people like you explained above who don't know what they are doing. Sloppy easy gameplay, makes sloppy players.

Really? Why is it a problem? You keep saying it is, without actually proving that it is. I mean, look at FFXI where most Easy Prey could kill you and yet we had plenty of level 75's that didn't have a clue in that game too. Making all mobs that are your level a challenge to kill won't suddenly improve the skills of the entire playerbase, they'll just reach level 50 by killing easier stuff.

It's an Artifact Armor. The name in and of itself should make it something worthwhile.

Well, that's the problem here. Its just a name. If it weren't for the FFXI nostalgia we wouldn't even be having this conversation. And more importantly, I don't think I would be that wrong in saying that most AF pieces were crap in FFXI.

*sigh* These posting restrictions are annoying:

That confirms also what I said in the OP, which is its a terrible idea to lump casuals with Elite. Things like that happen, self entitled Elitists see that message and instantly quit. Or you'll as you always do saying "Party of blah blah, looking for blah blah -MUST KNOW FIGHT-" messages being spammed. Can hardly get into something new unless I do it first with my FC because of the Elitists not wanting anything to do with casual/new players. Which is causing yet more rifts in the player base, because of how simplistic the leveling is, causing nobody to know their job. It's an endless spiral downwards.

*rolls eyes*

There you go again making baseless conclusions to try and push your point.

The problem with later dungeons isn't that "people don't know their jobs because the game is too easy", the problem is people don't know the mechanics of the dungeon because they're new to it. Then you get the jerks that leave instead of explaining the dungeon to the new guys.

[MistressAthena]

I also have to disagree with your assessment that levels 1-49 lack difficulty. I come to this forum and its like everyone is a pro, but then I go into Duty Finder and get parties that wipe on the first Ifrit fight. At most you can say that FFXIV is balanced towards new players instead of the pros.

The reason you see this is because, like I explained. The game is so easy people are not caring to learn. This is why you wipe, or have people who wipe even at low level dungeons. The game is so easy, they go into dungeons thinking its easy, and don't pay attention, or learn. They also are not learning to think on their feet, and hammer in where their spells are, which causes errors,which results in death.

So saying "Oh people die, it must be hard" isn't true.

Your complaint about the lack of immersion is simply full of hyperbole and mainly just a personal view. Yes, the areas are obviously smaller than the FFXI ones. It would be nice if they were bigger (especially so we could have more space for material farming mobs, Banemites anyone?), but I personally like them. But the bigger problem I have with your complaints about immersion: there is no reason why being able to kill stuff your level easily is a bad thing, you just present this as a fact. You also don't really need to fight super high level stuff to get a sense of danger either. I wanted some Antelope Horns, so I picked up my level 20 Archer and went out to kill some level 25 Antelope Stags. Now I was used to being able to just steamroll everything, so imagine my surprise when the first mob killed me, and after that I actually had to pay attention and be careful not to get killed.

So you like the smaller that's your preference, and its fine, but doesn't deter or make what I said any less valid, it is immersion breaking on a large degree because of how the NPCs, etc. react to it compared to how it actually is. That isn't really an opinion, whether you like it this way or not, is however. Whether it is immersion breaking for you can even be questioned, perhaps its not, and you don't pay attention to how the NPCs react to the world so it isn't immersion breaking for you. Idk. Also being able to easily kill something your level is a problem, I'm not saying it should be hard hard, but something where you need to pay attention at least. Again, can't make the game to easy or you get people like you explained above who don't know what they are doing. Sloppy easy gameplay, makes sloppy players.

Your complaint about AF not being an achievement... I think is kind of stupid. When FFXI was released (in Japan) the level cap was 50 and AF's weren't in the game. So it made more sense for AF to be harder to obtain in FFXI when it was introduced, since it functioned as a kind of "endgame" content. In FFXIV AF is available in the game at release. More importantly, AF+1 already exists and those take a bit more effort to obtain. Your feeling of accomplishment is there, not in the regular AF (though I personally can't wait until I get my AF).

It's an Artifact Armor. The name in and of itself should make it something worthwhile. The story that revolves around the armor is something which you would think would require time consuming of proving yourself, and focusing on it. Again, immersion breaking, and really makes the armor lack luster. It's your main suit of armor, the Armor which signifies and portrays that advanced class. Yet here you are getting it without any effort, and greatly diminishes that "special" feeling of it. There is no reason why they couldn't have made AF armor harder to achieve and something to focus on, and be better and stronger than Darklight, etc. but not as good as AF +1 either.