Graphics vs Aesthetics

[Abriael]

Example of taking marginal graphical power and turning them into pleasing aesthetics to create an inviting environment despite being designed to run on less powerful machines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MzZyZ-ty8

And when you see the same area from a player's point of view, it looks like normal Korean MMO fare released five years ago, with stretched low resolution textures, grass badly glued on the flat ground and all that. The actual gameplay videos of GW2 (and of any game that use the same camera tricks in their trailers, which means pretty much all of them) are much, much less flattering.

"scenic" flycam from angles that you will never see in the game != reality

I don't see why people get so bent up over extra credits, they bring up important things about game design and the people involved with them. Things that need to be discussed so we can grow and evolve as a system.

Because they know absolutely nothing about game development, and ramble about points that normally have no reflection in reality, completely ignoring the actual problems that come with actual game development, slapping around badly thought-out hearsay as it was actually true, just to give the impression that they "know better" while they don't.

Which is pretty much the same for the whole Escapist staff, when they aren't actually paid to purposedly (and artificially) bash the work of game developers "for the lulz" even when it's not nearly warranted or justified.

[DarkReed]

Thank you Tonka.. got the link working.
To me.. that is very Aestheticly pleaseing to the eye.
You got a sense of a place.. that was lived in and that people has used everyday for a long time.
With the currentt cities in FF-XIV. To coin a phrase from another thread I read today.. the cities look too new. Too clean.
If that makes any sense.
Yes we have high resolution textures in FF-XIV, and you can zoom in on a Ladadel and almost see every thread. But in doing that, you are creating a beast of a high fedality game engine. And if everything else isn't up to that standard. Then it sticks out a mile. Thats why the Cut and Paste design stands out to me.

[Tonka]

And when you see the same area from a player's point of view, it looks like normal Korean MMO fare released five years ago, with stretched low resolution textures, grass badly glued on the flat ground and all that. The actual gameplay videos of GW2 are much, much less flattering.

"scenic" flycam from angles that you will never see in the game != reality

ArenaNet is an American company. The game is not being made/produced by a Korean company. NCSoft is not making this game. I know you've already been told this before...

As for the discussion at hand, they are taking less powerful graphics designed to run on lower-end machines and making it look inviting. Some aspects may seem dated after looking at a Miqo'te running around, but they manage to make it look great.

Creativity/art direction > OMG THIS GRASS LOOKS SO MUCH NICER but there's nothing else to look at beyond vast plains of nothingness sprinkled with Nutbiters.

Speaking of the grass, it actually sways when you run through it in GW2. B|

[Naqaj]

"scenic" flycam from angles that you will never see in the game != reality

This on a XIV forum, priceless...

[DarkReed]

This on a XIV forum, priceless...

lol.. and thank you.

I am not saying the video is right or wrong..
I use the Video of extra Credits to make me think.

If I had not been watching that series. I would be bashing this game left right and centre. But at the end of they day. There are a lot of factors that come in to game devlopment.

This series gives me the option to question what I currently think. And some times raise a question.

In this case, I am questioning in a sense, did SE go out of their way to try and make an techncially visually impressive game, and in doing so, the world they was creating got lost.

Abriael, if you dont like where this discussion is going.. why be a part of it. So far you have seamed to tackle this from the mindset of that you don't like The Escapist, so therefore everything about this thread is wrong. But as of yet, you havn't realy commented on the descussion at hand.

[Abriael]

ArenaNet is an American company. The game is not being made/produced by a Korean company. NCSoft is not making this game. I know you've already been told this before...

What part of "it looks like normal Korean MMO fare" did you miss?
Asian-style badly rendered characters completaly lacking detail, buildings that look like they are made of cardboard, environments that look great zoomed out and flying, but that look lame when you actually walk into them, poor interiors lacking decoration (for the few buildings that actually do have an interior) = Normal Korean MMO fare.

Creativity/art direction > OMG THIS GRASS LOOKS SO MUCH NICER but there's nothing else to look at beyond vast plains of nothingness sprinkled with Nutbiters.

When creativity and art direction are not supported by graphical power, they still look like crap on today's games.

OMG this grass is so creative! But it still looks like a piece of cutout cardboard glued on a completely flat ground with an horrible low rez texture that completely ruins the atmosphere.

Again. Gameplay videos of the same areas aren't flattering at all. But go on being tricked by carefully staged trailers that you'll never see in the game if it floats your boat.

Speaking of the grass, it actually sways when you run through it in GW2. B|

And it still looks like pixelated crap glued on the ground.

But back on the video at hand, I started laughing when they said that Killzine 2 is a game lacking in aesthetics. It pretty much goes to show that they don't even know what "aesthetics" means, considering that the art direction of the whole killzone series is one of the best in the genre.

This on a XIV forum, priceless...

Pretty random comment considering that FFXIV is one of the MMO games for which the scenic flycam has been used the least in promotion.

Abriael, if you dont like where this discussion is going.. why be a part of it. So far you have seamed to tackle this from the mindset of that you don't like The Escapist, so therefore everything about this thread is wrong. But as of yet, you havn't realy commented on the descussion at hand.

Oh but I did. The fact that I didn't say what you like/expect to read doesn't mean that I didn't.
Points are simple:
1) they don't know crap about aesthetics, as much as they don't know crap about game development (lol @ Killzone 2 lacking in aesthetics)
2) aesthetics tend to go down the drain when they're not supported by graphical power. Many Korean and Korean-like MMORPGs that look great from an artificially staged distance and look like a punch in the eye when you actually walk in them are a perfect example of this.

[Tonka]

Go on, Abriael. Show us on this doll where ArenaNet touched you.

Seriously. It's a good example of utilizing art direction to create an aesthetically pleasing environment while using less than optimal graphics, which is what this thread is about. No reason to get upset about it, my good man.

[DarkReed]

Again.. Thank you tonka for trying to a voice of reason.

The video isnt important, thats why I din't post the link for it. The thing that is important is the question and thought behind it.
I just wanted to hear what others though on this subject matter.

[Abriael]

Go on, Abriael. Show us on this doll where ArenaNet touched you.

Luckily, criticism doesn't necessarily involve a bias. Quite the contrary. I simply compared GW2's gameplay videos with the promotional staged ones and noticed the evident difference.
The same difference that is easily seen in basically every game that uses the flycam trick in order to show their environments in the best light possible.

Seriously. It's a good example of utilizing art direction to create an aesthetically pleasing environment while using less than optimal graphics, which is what this thread is about. No reason to get upset about it, my good man.

Seriously, are you pulling out the "u mad?" argument? You seem to be the one upset because someone criticized your favourite upcoming kid on the block

Actually it's just a good example of utilizing a staged camera to hide flaws that are very evident in game, and to make the environment look more grand and epic then it actually is. A trick that's used not only by arenanet, but by a LOT of game developers out there.
Too bad that the impact with reality tends to be quite harsh as the hidden flaws are fully revealed as soon as the character walks into said environment, never being able to experience the angles and motion patterns displayed in the trailers and having to instead fully experience the flaws and shortcomings of the engine.

This is exacerbated even more when in those environment you start to see walking characters that look even worse than the environment (because too many of the already limited resources of the engine/hardware have been allocated to the environment, leaving too little for the characters), and as such seem to be artificially slapped into it, ruining the overall feel even more.

Mind you, it's indeed an example of good art direction, but of good art direction in trailer making. Not in game development.

Again.. Thank you tonka for trying to a voice of reason.

Voice that agrees with you != Voice of reason.

Ultimately, Aesthetics are subjective, graphical quality is not. You may like or not like a game's art direction, but graphical quality is an absolute value over which aesthetics can be built.

[Naqaj]

Pretty random comment considering that FFXIV is one of the MMO games for which the scenic flycam has been used the least in promotion.

Less random once you realize in the actual game that same trick turns badly scripted cutscenes into GRAPHICALLY AMAZING STORY EVENTS!



On topic of GW2, you're of course fully entitled to your opinion about it's graphical appearance, but you shouldn't try to sell it to us as anything remotely resembling a fact.



edit: ah, dammit, I fell for it again, didn't I?