Graphics vs Aesthetics

[DarkReed]

This on a XIV forum, priceless...

lol.. and thank you.

I am not saying the video is right or wrong..
I use the Video of extra Credits to make me think.

If I had not been watching that series. I would be bashing this game left right and centre. But at the end of they day. There are a lot of factors that come in to game devlopment.

This series gives me the option to question what I currently think. And some times raise a question.

In this case, I am questioning in a sense, did SE go out of their way to try and make an techncially visually impressive game, and in doing so, the world they was creating got lost.

Abriael, if you dont like where this discussion is going.. why be a part of it. So far you have seamed to tackle this from the mindset of that you don't like The Escapist, so therefore everything about this thread is wrong. But as of yet, you havn't realy commented on the descussion at hand.

[DarkReed]

Thank you Tonka.. got the link working.
To me.. that is very Aestheticly pleaseing to the eye.
You got a sense of a place.. that was lived in and that people has used everyday for a long time.
With the currentt cities in FF-XIV. To coin a phrase from another thread I read today.. the cities look too new. Too clean.
If that makes any sense.
Yes we have high resolution textures in FF-XIV, and you can zoom in on a Ladadel and almost see every thread. But in doing that, you are creating a beast of a high fedality game engine. And if everything else isn't up to that standard. Then it sticks out a mile. Thats why the Cut and Paste design stands out to me.

[Tonka]

Go on, Abriael. Show us on this doll where ArenaNet touched you.

Seriously. It's a good example of utilizing art direction to create an aesthetically pleasing environment while using less than optimal graphics, which is what this thread is about. No reason to get upset about it, my good man.

[DarkReed]

Again.. Thank you tonka for trying to a voice of reason.

The video isnt important, thats why I din't post the link for it. The thing that is important is the question and thought behind it.
I just wanted to hear what others though on this subject matter.

[Abriael]

Go on, Abriael. Show us on this doll where ArenaNet touched you.

Luckily, criticism doesn't necessarily involve a bias. Quite the contrary. I simply compared GW2's gameplay videos with the promotional staged ones and noticed the evident difference.
The same difference that is easily seen in basically every game that uses the flycam trick in order to show their environments in the best light possible.

Seriously. It's a good example of utilizing art direction to create an aesthetically pleasing environment while using less than optimal graphics, which is what this thread is about. No reason to get upset about it, my good man.

Seriously, are you pulling out the "u mad?" argument? You seem to be the one upset because someone criticized your favourite upcoming kid on the block

Actually it's just a good example of utilizing a staged camera to hide flaws that are very evident in game, and to make the environment look more grand and epic then it actually is. A trick that's used not only by arenanet, but by a LOT of game developers out there.
Too bad that the impact with reality tends to be quite harsh as the hidden flaws are fully revealed as soon as the character walks into said environment, never being able to experience the angles and motion patterns displayed in the trailers and having to instead fully experience the flaws and shortcomings of the engine.

This is exacerbated even more when in those environment you start to see walking characters that look even worse than the environment (because too many of the already limited resources of the engine/hardware have been allocated to the environment, leaving too little for the characters), and as such seem to be artificially slapped into it, ruining the overall feel even more.

Mind you, it's indeed an example of good art direction, but of good art direction in trailer making. Not in game development.

Again.. Thank you tonka for trying to a voice of reason.

Voice that agrees with you != Voice of reason.

Ultimately, Aesthetics are subjective, graphical quality is not. You may like or not like a game's art direction, but graphical quality is an absolute value over which aesthetics can be built.

[Tonka]

What you said.

No more than a month or so ago they said they didn't plan on having the option to walk. Then that video I posted came out and they confirmed they were working on it. Not a big deal. Plus, it's not like it will look as fluid and nice as FFXIV's motion capture when it's all finished anyway. But as long as there isn't a little delay every time I start or stop running (or turn etc) I'll be much more happy with this.

And there is plenty of player footage including running around the human city which looks great even on foot, in my opinion. I don't want to really get into it any more as I was just trying to offer an example to the OP and completely except that you don't agree with much or anything I'm saying.

[Abriael]

And there is plenty of player footage including running around the human city which looks great even on foot, in my opinion. I don't want to really get into it any more as I was just trying to offer an example to the OP and completely except that you don't agree with much or anything I'm saying.

That's exactly the videos i'm talking about. I'm not sure about your standards, but that's exactly what I refer as "usual Korean MMO fare". It's not bad enough to turn me off the game, that's pretty damn for sure (I'm hoping that they'll do "public quests" right this time around so that I can finally enjoy the concept), but it's nowhere that impressive. It's pretty much on the same level that Korean mmorpg offered in the last couple years.

[DarkReed]

Ok.. I will stand up then.. earlier you typed this..

"Oh but I did. The fact that I didn't say what you like/expect to read doesn't mean that I didn't.
Points are simple:
1) they don't know crap about aesthetics, as much as they don't know crap about game development (lol @ Killzone 2 lacking in aesthetics)
2) aesthetics tend to go down the drain when they're not supported by graphical power. Many Korean and Korean-like MMORPGs that look great from an artificially staged distance and look like a punch in the eye when you actually walk in them are a perfect example of this. "

You first point is the material that got me thinking about this subject. Which is kinda why I am here, it doesnt matter who made the the video, the only thing we take from it is I am rasing the question in regards to this game.

On the second point, you are talking more about the graphics of the game, the draw distance, Fog, the light, the textures. Yes, FF-XIV does have a lot of this. But at the same time, the world needs to feel like a charator in its self. Thats where the Asthetics come in, to me its the way you feel connected to the world, and the way the world will draws you in.

Right now, I don't feel that connection to the game world as have I with many other games I have playied. I do play yes, but only to do leves, to give me a head start when things might come along.

But I am interested to know, just because you raised it. How do you see Killzone 2 as Aestheticly pleaseing?

[Abriael]

On the second point, you are talking more about the graphics of the game, the draw distance, Fog, the light, the textures. Yes, FF-XIV does have a lot of this. But at the same time, the world needs to feel like a charator in its self. Thats where the Asthetics come in, to me its the way you feel connected to the world, and the way the world will draws you in.

Can't be drawn in by a world that looks like it's made of cardboard, with characters that seem to be made of foam. That's, by the way, where coherence in graphics and art direction comes into play. One of the best aspects of FFXIV's engine and art direction is that they're coherent between mobiles and world design.

But I am interested to know, just because you raised it. How do you see Killzone 2 as Aestheticly pleaseing?

The art direction in Killzone 2 is one of the most iconic in the industry (the hellghast are a true work of art for instance), the environments show great detail, are extremely realistic, and athmospheric. On top of that there's a great coherence between art direction and graphical power.
The makers of that video just randomly fished one of the most graphically performing games out there and "invented" a lack of aesthetics to prove a false point.

[Augury]

Gotta remember that Extra Credits is an opinion show, and while Daniel Floyd tends to have very valid, intelligent opinions, he also has a tendency to "preach". This aside, I do feel that this applies to XIV pretty well. Not because XIV has a "bad aesthetic", but because there was too much emphasis on graphical power. I feel that future releases of the game should be less graphically demanding but still contain the high-end options available. Simply on the basis that players shouldn't be punished for having expensive PCs to run the game, but it should be playable on more computers.

XIV's actual aesthetic is actually really good, by avoiding the traps of "epic looking" everything. And while there should certainly be gaudy options available, the modest aesthetic is actually rather enjoyable. What XIV needs though is very minor adjustments to add character