Patch 2.1 - Leaving Group Penalty

[xSinful_Snake]

This needs to be discussed as it has become a plague on servers and will only worsen the longer it is allowed to happen.

Players with zealous and elitist attitudes are consistently if not commonly leaving PRIMAL encounters because of a single wipe, and on top of that, many of these individuals being tanks are allowed to queue immediately and get back into the encounter with VERY LITTLE wait time, if any at all.

Scenario Example: Encounter starts. Tank asks if anyone is new, 4 people say yes, tanks leaves. Now all the spa have to wait 30-60 min to re-queue while the tank only waits 10-15 min IF the Duty Finder makes him/her. If it doesn't they only wait 1-2 minutes and they're back in it again.

This is absolutely unfair to people who are learning these encounters. Now I know that a lot of you will say "Well do them with your Free Company or people on your World", but need I remind you that there ARE players who are very ahead of their own Free Companies for whatever reason and no self-glorifying FC is going to bring an outsider into their run unless it's absolutely necessary making the occasion very rare, so how else are us "new players" supposed to learn content when individuals like the above scenario are allowed to ditch us whenever they please without consequence?

There needs to be a penalty in place for players like this. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. I tried to be patient telling myself the issue would resolve itself but I'm done being quiet about it. Don't tell me to go role a tank, don't tell me to wait for my FC, don't tell me you're thinking about it, I want to KNOW and I'm sure other Damage Dealer Classes want to KNOW that something is going to be out in place to penalize players for leaving within the first 5-10 minutes of an encounter be it because of a wipe, or them feeling as though they can leave and re-queue instantly.

Ideas of penalties:
- 30 min wait before requeue
- less prioritization when queuing
- all armor broken upon leaving
- a fee of 5,000-10,000 Gil
- stat decrease on all classes (30 min)
- unable to leave current city or town (30 min)

Those are just examples of the price people should have to pay when they waste everyone else's time by queuing for something everybody needs and then leaving immediately because things aren't going their way.

This breed of players who believe they are above everyone because they've done an encounter more than others and have more knowledge of the fight are the ones that should be told to run it with their FC, not us individuals who see the duty finder for what it is: a system to queue for encounters and get the job done.

Call this a rant but I call it an obvious idea of what needs to be done.

[GGprime]

The 15minutes are already too much, joining Titan everyday through duty finder with tanks below 5k hp (even though the boss crits above 5k) and dps doing less dmg than I do in healing gear....why do I need to waste my time if people are joining a gearcheck fight completly undergeared not even able reading a single guide or watch a video?

[xSinful_Snake]

You act as if EVERYBODY you encounter hasn't watched a video or doesn't know about what gear is needed for certain fights. I have news for you, some of us actually DO watch videos and some us actually WONT queue or a fight if we know we can't do it yet.

A required gear check in the duty finder is a side-problem when it is measured up against people who won't even give the encounter a shot because someone in the group is new. That is the behavior that needs to be penalized either BEFORE or WITH a gear requirement.

[ufufu]

A 15 minute wait time is enough. You're mad about it, okay, but you know that the options you're suggesting are pretty extreme, right? For instance, I left a Brayflox run found through the DF last night because I, as a healer, was unable to keep my party healed through the very first boss of the instance, where we wiped. It was obvious that they were either undergeared or underperforming, or both. Should I have stayed and struggled through, even though it was clear that if I did it would just be a huge extra amount of work for me, and that we would almost certainly wipe on the final boss? Did I deserve all my armor to be broken, or a 5-10k fee, or being "unable to leave" my "current city or town"?

The current system is fine. Maybe if a particular player leaves MULTIPLE groups within an hour, or another set amount of time, they could have the cooldown timer on the DF grow. That's about the only penalty I would be able to agree with.

[Ranebow]

You act as if EVERYBODY you encounter hasn't watched a video or doesn't know about what gear is needed for certain fights. I have news for you, some of us actually DO watch videos and some us actually WONT queue or a fight if we know we can't do it yet.

A required gear check in the duty finder is a side-problem when it is measured up against people who won't even give the encounter a shot because someone in the group is new. That is the behavior that needs to be penalized either BEFORE or WITH a gear requirement.

This points out the flaw in the way the game currently works. On the one hand we have a very easy and intuitive 'action'(hest,dungeon,primal etc,.)duty group finder that allows you to join events hassle free. Yet the actual encounters require such a narrow band of participants (because of gear, not skill or knowledge), that it is contrary to the style of the duty finder and the game in of itself.

You can't expect hardcore to work with a duty finder - it never has and it certainly won't start with this game.
This is probably why people suggest that you cherry pick or hand pick your group(s) as at least you can trust them.

On the other hand again, the game is too laid back for 49 levels then BAM shit hits the fan and you can't get anything done because you don't have the gear. Chicken and egg scenarios in MMORPGs can ruin end games.

Rather than punish individual culprits (and by extension innocent players), they should fix the mechanics to not create situation where this is a big problem to begin with. What we absolutely do not want, is limits on dungeons and other events. Time penalties and lock out timers are AWFUL and turn end-games into nothing but micro managed chores sucking all the life out of the game.

Ultimately the difference between the way you suggest it and the way it works now is that your wanting to impose a synthetic time penalty and currently you suffer an organic one which over time works itself out.

[KisaiTenshi]

Players with zealous and elitist attitudes are consistently if not commonly leaving PRIMAL encounters because of a single wipe, and on top of that, many of these individuals being tanks are allowed to queue immediately and get back into the encounter with VERY LITTLE wait time, if any at all.

People are elitist? Color me shocked :/

The 15minutes are already too much, joining Titan everyday through duty finder with tanks below 5k hp (even though the boss crits above 5k) and dps doing less dmg than I do in healing gear....why do I need to waste my time if people are joining a gearcheck fight completly undergeared not even able reading a single guide or watch a video?

Then you're part of the problem. Form a party on your server and go spank Titan instead of trolling people.

There is no such thing as a gearcheck fight. If you are under-geared for a fight, that should be something you experience, and then come back to. It should not be left to trolls who join and leave, or join and do nothing.

Here's my suggestion:
Every time you leave a fight, add a permanent requeue penalty that ticks down only after successfully completing the dungeon. So if you leave two consecutive fights, you now have to wait at least 30 minutes before being requeued for all dungeons on that class. This should also apply to joining parties in the field.

How to make everyone happy:
a) Make a "X wishes to withdraw" prompt, which results in the entire party leaving the instance if all players agree. This will not result in a penalty.
b) Make a "X wishes to replace Y" prompt, which results in T being kicked only if there is a replacement waiting. Y will not get a penalty.

Related issue: People who join and do nothing is solved with B, but this should be controlled by the instance, whereby if the player is not in the boss room they will be automatically kicked if the boss is defeated without them.

[ufufu]

If you are under-geared for a fight, that should be something you experience, and then come back to. It should not be left to trolls who join and leave, or join and do nothing.

Here's the thing: if you or multiple people are under-geared you're going to cause your party to wipe, which, really, is wasting everyone's time. What is an individual player who is properly geared and properly prepared for the fight supposed to do? Keep trying (and wiping) with the undergeared players until the timer runs out? It's easier and takes less time - for everyone involved - for people to just leave.

This should also apply to joining parties in the field.

And that's totally insane.

[xSinful_Snake]

This points out the flaw in the way the game currently works. On the one hand we have a very easy and intuitive 'action'(hest,dungeon,primal etc,.)duty group finder that allows you to join events hassle free. Yet the actual encounters require such a narrow band of participants (because of gear, not skill or knowledge), that it is contrary to the style of the duty finder and the game in of itself.

You can't expect hardcore to work with a duty finder - it never has and it certainly won't start with this game.
This is probably why people suggest that you cherry pick or hand pick your group(s) as at least you can trust them.

On the other hand again, the game is too laid back for 49 levels then BAM shit hits the fan and you can't get anything done because you don't have the gear. Chicken and egg scenarios in MMORPGs can ruin end games.

Rather than punish individual culprits (and by extension innocent players), they should fix the mechanics to not create situation where this is a big problem to begin with. What we absolutely do not want, is limits on dungeons and other events. Time penalties and lock out timers are AWFUL and turn end-games into nothing but micro managed chores sucking all the life out of the game.

Ultimately the difference between the way you suggest it and the way it works now is that your wanting to impose a synthetic time penalty and currently you suffer an organic one which over time works itself out.

You make an excellent point. While I agree that though my penalties would be a bit extreme, some players are deserving of them, though perhaps as Ufufu suggested, for repeat offenders only.

That being said and taking what you say into consideration, there needs to be more endgame content in regards to more level 50 dungeons that allow players to gear up for these gear-checking encounters like Titan [Hard Mode]. All anyone is able to do right now is Amdapor Keep and The Wanderer's Palace without having to step into an 8-Man Raid. While the 8-Man Raids like Castrum Meridianium and The Praetorium can be exciting, it is only for so long before they become tedious as there are many cut scenes and many scenarios (which leads to individuals being left behind because they want to enjoy the storyline).

If you expect individuals to be READY gear-wise for Titan-HM then you shouldn't allow players to obtain the quest until they meet the gear requirements. If a level requirement can lock an individual from accepting a quest, why wasn't a gear check implimented if the developers KNEW for a fact that players in Titan would NEED a certain amount of HP to live through his unavoidable attacks.

It's because of that all-too common "we didn't expect this" attitude that players like myself are having to deal with this constant issue.

[C-croft]

This points out the flaw in the way the game currently works. On the one hand we have a very easy and intuitive 'action'(hest,dungeon,primal etc,.)duty group finder that allows you to join events hassle free. Yet the actual encounters require such a narrow band of participants (because of gear, not skill or knowledge), that it is contrary to the style of the duty finder and the game in of itself.

You can't expect hardcore to work with a duty finder - it never has and it certainly won't start with this game.
This is probably why people suggest that you cherry pick or hand pick your group(s) as at least you can trust them.

On the other hand again, the game is too laid back for 49 levels then BAM shit hits the fan and you can't get anything done because you don't have the gear. Chicken and egg scenarios in MMORPGs can ruin end games.

Rather than punish individual culprits (and by extension innocent players), they should fix the mechanics to not create situation where this is a big problem to begin with. What we absolutely do not want, is limits on dungeons and other events. Time penalties and lock out timers are AWFUL and turn end-games into nothing but micro managed chores sucking all the life out of the game.

Ultimately the difference between the way you suggest it and the way it works now is that your wanting to impose a synthetic time penalty and currently you suffer an organic one which over time works itself out.

SE's answer is the iLVL check prior to entering instances. That isn't going to stop someone from leaving because there are new people. Hardmode is easily puggable. Making sure people are geared enough to enter is the hard part. Through DF at least.

[Truedragon]

Bonus % tomes for clearing dungeon from start to finish.
Penalty % for leaving early.

Problem solved.