Skip Darklight?

[Jahaudant]

stuff

I'm not arguing that 5 melding with Tier IVs is easy, I'm telling you Vanya has the potential to be just as good as AF2 and Allagan. It isn't, as you described, "senseless at the moment".

Please also remember that it will take you a couple of months to finish 5 pieces of AF2. Think about it.

[Animation]

I'm not arguing that 5 melding with Tier IVs is easy, I'm telling you Vanya has the potential to be just as good as AF2 and Allagan. It isn't, as you described, "senseless at the moment".

Please also remember that it will take you a couple of months to finish 5 pieces of AF2. Think about it.

To be honest Allagan looks soooooo much better than Vanya. But you're right, I'm yet to even see one piece of it on any server. :/

[Comalol]

I'm not arguing that 5 melding with Tier IVs is easy, I'm telling you Vanya has the potential to be just as good as AF2 and Allagan. It isn't, as you described, "senseless at the moment".

Please also remember that it will take you a couple of months to finish 5 pieces of AF2. Think about it.

the same time (or even more if luck is not on your side) can be necessary to acquire... soulbind... extract the relevant materia... this pose the vanya on the same time frame for acquisition (and as said it can be largely dependant on pure lack...)

to this u have to add: the large number of philosophy that u need to craft the item... the other crafting matrials... all the item that u will need for the r4 materia (that actually I've yet to understand from wich item can be salvaged since dungeon drop are almost all non convertible :/)


looking at this... and looking at the stat that are as said... similar on values but with some large hole on the ditribution (total absence of piety can really hurt... especialy a WHM... and if u use materia yo fill that hole u will be left with reduced overall stat...)

the vanya is: equaly time consuming... more expensive... similar but a little under on the stat... with less defense (that for us caster can be a little malus... not big as for tank but still a muns for the vanya)... over all a subpar equip (by little but still subpar) with higher requirment... this is what I call a bad choice... or useless... since the same (or even better less) effort award a better result...

the onlyreason someone would chose a vanya over a AF2 is:

skin... but even the vanya is not the bright of a skin... and we are under the personal preference argument...
stat personalization... that can be a plus of the vanya... if not for that BIG hole that I have previously pointed out... if only it had a resonable amount of piety to begin with and u could have simply selected to go for higher mind at the cost of lower piety or higher secondary at cost of lower primary... than it would have been a fair trade off (this only talking about stat and not the other aspect previously explained)... but as it is now the tradeoff for the stat personalization si an overall HEAVY deficinency on main stat...

so... if u still think that uselees is a bit too hard... (personaly I'm still of that opinion...) u should probably concurr that at best it can be classified as really inefficent alternative


PS: I forgot one additional aspect that is detrimental to the vanya... that is the crafter fee... if' ur not a crafter yourself (if u are than u should also compute part of the time u spent on lvl the crafting skill on the vanya cost... part since the rest can bear his fruit thx to trade board...) u will also need a crafter that will probably ask for a fee (the one I found on my server asked the astronomical price of 100k per piece + all materials cost on me -_-') + the additional fee that many crafter require for the melding...

[Jahaudant]

It's like arguing with a brick wall. Nothing you are saying means Vanya is bad, or that nobody should ever use it.

In comparison with AF2/Allagan, Vanya can have:
-9 MND
-9 VIT
-2 Spell Speed
+20 Determination
+24 Critical Hit Rate

Not exactly unequivocally better, but no where near "useless", "senseless", or a "bad choice". You don't seem to understand that you aren't locked in a single type of gear... I'd love to give you a some examples where obtaining HQ Vanya would not only be the right choice, but it would be the BEST choice but I'm afraid the sentiment will bounce right off of your ignorance.

[Comalol]

It's like arguing with a brick wall. Nothing you are saying means Vanya is bad, or that nobody should ever use it.

In comparison with AF2/Allagan, Vanya can have:
-9 MND
-9 VIT
-2 Spell Speed
+20 Determination
+24 Critical Hit Rate

Not exactly unequivocally better, but no where near "useless", "senseless", or a "bad choice". You don't seem to understand that you aren't locked in a single type of gear... I'd love to give you a some examples where obtaining HQ Vanya would not only be the right choice, but it would be the BEST choice but I'm afraid the sentiment will bounce right off of your ignorance.

sorry mate... but really how can an equip that give me less stat... that require more time... that cost more effort... be a good choice?

I'm all open to your resoning... as before I understimated the stat of a r4 materia melded hq vanya considering it to be too much under stat... after your example i had to reconsider my point... it still is under stat (in particualr as I many time highlated the total absence of piety is really bad... and u get that at the cost of having all the other stat on equal lvl... so nothing is really compensating u for that big malus...) but less that what I expected... still... those under stat combined to the fact that it is as much if not harder to get that an AF2 makes it a bad choice... (bad choice = there is something that is better and is not harder to get... )


to me comparing the vanya to the af2 is just like comparing 4 apple to 5 apple... where the 4 apply cost more than the 5... with the difference that the 5 apple are given to u in a pack (after being controlled and passed trough a quality check...) and the 4 apple u can freely select them among the same pool from where the 5 appel have been taken...

the abilit to chose is a good thing... and I'm all for it... I'm even up for having a little less return for my ability to chose... but if i get:

less return (and not by a small margin)...
more price...
more time investment...

than sorry but again consideirng it anything else but a bad choice is really hard for me... so if u really have some example that could make the vanya more appealing than an AF2 I'm all here ready to listen to you...


PS: thx for that ignorance comment that really was useless ^^ is nice how poeple that have different idead's from u are ignorant... for me on the other side everyone that have different ideas from mine is someone that can potentialy teach me something if I listen enough... and even if at the end I end up with nothing new to learn at least that time was spent to make sure I wasn't wrong... because... you know... nobody is always right... and everyone can make a mistake ^^

PPS: in you last comparison u just fogot a -26 piety... that was the most important thing I argumented the stat disparity on ^^' also: 20 det is equal /less efficent thatn 9 mind (det seem to have a strange return) so u'r actualy trading 24 crit for 9 vit, 2 ss and AGAIN 26 piety... no matter how u look at it... that really is a big difference even if u'r going for a crit fishing build...

[Elendil_Voronda]

You lose helm stats, that's why :/ if Darklights hood was separate then it'd be worth it, I avoid all 1 piece sets. :/ - Don't get me wrong, it looks amazing, but you're better to just skip it. :/

You loose head piece, but the stats of the Body is more than the previous tier (Strategos) head and body combined..., i mean it really is just about the numbers.

Strategos Body and Head

MND = 26
VIT = 26
PIETY = 24
SPELL SPEED = 28
DET = 0

Darklight Cowl of Healing

MND = 33 (+7)
VIT = 26 (+6)
PIETY = 24 (-5)
SPELL SPEED = 28 (-28)
DET = 29 (+29)

So DL cowl has more mind, more vit, a little less piety, and exchanges spell speed for determination. I prefer determination over spell speed, so DL body seems fairly superior to me.

[Animation]

/snip

It is better, wow lmao..
I'm not sure how that slipped my mind, I was comparing it to clerics for some reason, it's far to late lol xD
I'm not sure though it takes me ages to get tombs.

[Himari]

Darklight robe looks horrible. That's why I only wear it when i'm in dungeons and use the bikini outfight..

[Jahaudant]

Unbelievable. I need to spell this out to you it seems.

Let me start by explaining the difference in these tiers of equipment. Upgrading from Darklight to melded HQ Vanya is a massive boost in stats whereas upgrading from Vanya to AF2 is such a minimal increase, and if we ignore the arguably useless piety stat it could go either way to be honest.

You are perfectly correct in stating that when presented with, for example, a choice between a FREE HQ Vanya Robe of Healing and a FREE Cleric's Robe you can pick the AF2 over the Vanya without too much consideration.

What you seem to be forgetting is that AF2 requires tomestones of mythology, of which you can acquire 300 per week meaning it will take you 3 weeks to save enough tomes to purchase a body piece. The majority of the Vanya costs come down to tomestones of philosophy, of which you can acquire however many per week as you have the time or willingness to farm. The same goes for the other materials, including the materia.

What does this mean? It means that the entire basis of your argument (assuming you have to make a choice between the two) is moot. There is no choice to make. The two items cost different currencies which can even be obtained at the same time.

Let's make an example out of this.

Riv and Elis both have full Darklight gear for their WHM and they both want to improve their gear in time for when their FC starts running Bahamut's Coil in exactly 5 weeks. They both have an average item level of 461.

Elis runs AK a bunch, gets her myth tomes and by time the first Coil run starts she has managed to buy her Cleric's Robe and Cleric's Boots to replace the same two DL pieces Sweet!

Riv on the other hand has decided he doesn't want to get the Cleric's Stuff just yet and opts instead to spend his myth tomes on 1 Hero accessory, and a Thyrus +1. By itself, not exactly any "better" than what Elis managed to achieve right? Not exactly. Because Riv, at the same time as farming his myths, also accrued a boat load of philo tomes and he employed the services of a lovely crafter to make him the Vanya head, hands and body. (The easiest ones to obtain and HQ at a rate of 100%).

Now, for the purposes of comparison, I'm going to give melded HQ vanya a theoretical Item Level of 85 considering it's potential stats in comparison to relic/allagan with an item level of 90.

Elis' new item level average is 501
Riv's new item level average is 518

So because of Elis' complete disregard for her other potential avenues of growth Riv has managed to become a much stronger healer.

Note: Can't believe I just typed this.

Note 2: Remember, my only argument is that HQ Vanya is not "useless" or "senseless". Clearly it is very useful, and very good.

[NadienKirisame]

It is better, wow lmao..
I'm not sure how that slipped my mind, I was comparing it to clerics for some reason, it's far to late lol xD
I'm not sure though it takes me ages to get tombs.

The stats are better but the upgrading after that is a pain. So you get the DL body (note this is actually worse for tanks) now you get enough myths to get AF +1 or you actually run coil and get the allag body drop... but wait the DL body is both body and head... so what are you going to use for head gear? This is why I would go with DL everything else and get stratego body/head or vanya body/head and technically the vanya is better then the DL since it doesn't look like crap :P

The cat is bemused =-.-= (yeah yeah Lala... this is what I always end with so deal with it until I switch back)