Is anyone annoyed by the HUGE number of people using bots on this game?

[viion]

Gotta know...

Are you just playing devil's advocate here?

Or are you seriously defending and/or justifying botting?

If so... well... in light of what rampant botting did in FFXI.. it's pretty ridiculous that you're actually arguing for it... or, at the least, dismissing it as "no big deal".

But I see where your argument comes from "If it doesn't affect me, then it doesn't affect anyone else and everyone should mind their own business".

You keep challenging people's reasons for not wanting it in the game, as though they have to justify it to you, or it's bogus. Hate to break it to you, friend, but you're on the wrong side of the argument here, however you try to spin it.

The rules support those against botting, not for it. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here by defending it.

Do you, perhaps, partake in a bit of botting yourself and that's why you're so adamant about defending it? I mean, you're making some of the same classic arguments for it that admitted botters make, all essentially boiling down to "the game forces me to!", or "It doesn't affect anyone else, so it's none of your business!". You have the same sort of offensive/defensive response, challenging others to justify to you why they should care...

I always find it curious when people, like yourself, seem so determined to defend something that you - supposedly - "don't care about". Yet, you have posted several retorts here, essentially defending it, arguing that people should "mind their own business" and let it happen. Seems like an awful lot of personal investment for something you care so little about to post several times on the topic.

And here's another take on it.. If it means so little to you, fine. But then why should you care if other people would prefer not to see it happening around them? Why do you care what they think? What has you all hot and bothered about it that you feel compelled to argue against the people who would like to see the botters removed? What personal investment do you have in it?

If it doesn't matter to you either way, then why do you care if it does to others?

You should reread my posts. I'm metely saying peoples reasoning is flawed and im sick of the innocent people getting banned out of other peoples bullshit reasons and reports.

I'll be against botters when you provide a valid reason

[Preypacer]

You should reread my posts. I'm metely saying peoples reasoning is flawed and im sick of the innocent people getting banned out of other peoples bullshit reasons and reports.

I'll be against botters when you provide a valid reason

First, you're lying.

Direct quote from you:

No I dont care, because I bought this game, I play for me, they dont affect me and never have in any game past/present, so why should I care. If peeps wanna bot, let um, isn't really any of your business lol.

You clearly indicate that it doesn't affect you, that people should be able to bot, and that it's no one else's business. You reiterate as much in later posts.

Second, you're trying to weave two completely different issues into the same argument. "People being wrongfully banned" is not the same as "if people want to bot, let 'em. It's none of your business".

Second, cut the "prove me wrong" BS. It's a disingenuous stunt that has been played by many others, over many other topics, across many message forums. The reason it's disingenuous is because you have already set yourself up as "being right" and place the onus on others to "prove you wrong". However, no matter what information you're given, what facts are provided, you will dismiss them all and say "see? I'm right. No one can provide a good reason".

It's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears, shutting your eyes and saying "lalalala can't hear you!".

All it really does is reveals just how intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant you insist on being.

Sadly, being ignorant of the facts (willfully or otherwise) doesn't exclude you from them. It's your responsibility to do the research and educate yourself on why botting is a problem and why it's prohibited so widely.

Secondly, it would be helpful for you to get over yourself and realize that your personal opinion on botting doesn't trump a developer's established rules regarding it. No, really. It doesn't.

If you truly want to know why botting is a problem and the ways in which it's a problem... My advice would be to get over yourself, take some initiative, do your own research - like everyone else has to - and educate yourself on the topic.

Finally... a parting word of advice: Being ignorant, snarky and obnoxious on a message forum does not "make you right".

That's all I'm going to say further on the topic because, frankly, I find people wielding their ignorance as though it was an ace card to be sad and pathetic and have no interest in entertaining it further in this case.

[Peregrine]

The argument that SE should wait until it's pay to play service is flawed. Never use the game's payment status as justification for its quality control, since it doesn't aim to be a Free to Play caliber game, and honestly it's still acting like one. That the developers don't seem to care is indication that the game isn't worth being paid for. Not the other way around.

Cheaters already squat every craft in this game. Every day some botcrafting illegitimate is finishing up another job to add to their arsenal.

A. Do they even acknowledge that the game is rife with cheating? Probably not.
B. If they do acknowledge it, when are they going to ban them? If they bot after you start charging? Why? They're making the game look bad NOW. Game looks like a joke NOW. Ban them NOW.

Every day that those craftbotters advance on their server is a day that Square Enix loses the respect of what little legitimate fan base they have. The majority of people who have quit the game but still check in on it hear about all these bots and just shake their heads and laugh. It's more evidence that the devs just don't care about the product enough to make it good.

It is way past due that Yoshida said and did something about the blatant cheating in this "whatever, **** it" mentality game we have going on here. Some of us still care.

Up to a quarter of high-level crafters are cheaters. And no one in charge seems to care.

[viion]

First, you're lying.

Direct quote from you:
You clearly indicate that it doesn't affect you, that people should be able to bot, and that it's no one else's business. You reiterate as much in later posts.

Second, you're trying to weave two completely different issues into the same argument. "People being wrongfully banned" is not the same as "if people want to bot, let 'em. It's none of your business".

Second, cut the "prove me wrong" BS. It's a disingenuous stunt that has been played by many others, over many other topics, across many message forums. The reason it's disingenuous is because you have already set yourself up as "being right" and place the onus on others to "prove you wrong". However, no matter what information you're given, what facts are provided, you will dismiss them all and say "see? I'm right. No one can provide a good reason".

It's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears, shutting your eyes and saying "lalalala can't hear you!".

All it really does is reveals just how intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant you insist on being.

Sadly, being ignorant of the facts (willfully or otherwise) doesn't exclude you from them. It's your responsibility to do the research and educate yourself on why botting is a problem and why it's prohibited so widely.

Secondly, it would be helpful for you to get over yourself and realize that your personal opinion on botting doesn't trump a developer's established rules regarding it. No, really. It doesn't.

If you truly want to know why botting is a problem and the ways in which it's a problem... My advice would be to get over yourself, take some initiative, do your own research - like everyone else has to - and educate yourself on the topic.

Finally... a parting word of advice: Being ignorant, snarky and obnoxious on a message forum does not "make you right".

That's all I'm going to say further on the topic because, frankly, I find people wielding their ignorance as though it was an ace card to be sad and pathetic and have no interest in entertaining it further in this case.

My quote you took, did I quote anyone in it? Nope I was answering the OP's post. I stand by that.

But then people quote me, so i replied back. First guy said you cannot compete with bot so you must report them! Because they ruin your game. No they dont im sorry but I could come along and ruin your game does that make me a bot? I could be 100% legit but your jealousy would cause you to report me. aka a bullshit excuse.

But then he went onto say how he was upset that he had to put a lot of time in to work for things, where as the bots dont, so isn't really much to do with botting really but is a bullshit excuse because bots primary purpose is so you dont have to put the effort in! Bit hypocritical. That whole debate was out of his jealousy because he has to work for it and botters dont.

Then you came in and said I was justifying a bot, I dont see how, even in the quote you mentioned. I said I dont care about it. People rob stores all day, do I sit down and cry or get angry? Nope. I've been robbed, it happens but im not going to go accuse everyone of being robbers just because they look dodgy or walk in a store with huddies and big waist pockets.

No ones given me any facts, no ones given me any proof that a bot is ruining the game, people say bots ruined XI, I dont see how ? What did they do? I played for 6 years or so, never at all did bots affect me. There were ones such as claim bots that could be classed as affecting me, but the people who claimed could of not been claim botting, you dont know 100%, so I dont instantly judge out of anger of not claiming so much. I come back next spawn and try again. Its like continuing losing a job at a specific place because the other guys "know" people who work there. You might be more skilled, worked harder, but they got the job, how you take that is w/e but I wouldnt get upset/angry i'd just come back another time or try another place.

I've done research, I've looked into every nut and cranny to figure out why botting is so bad, i've gone through the experience and it makes no clear cut. A lot of people get confused between Botters and RMTers, they are 2 seperate things, and such things as the guy complaining about the economy, the RMTers might have a large involvement in that, its not the botting that is doing it, is the RMT drive. (Which is illegal by law in some places, botting is not...)

I also dont see where i gave the impression of my opinion on botting doesnt trump developer rules, (you should seriously look into why those rules are there, and be horribly upset when they're for the companies interest, not yours or anyones). Theres rules on downloading music, rules on watching online shows, do you pay a TV licence? Its illegal to watch shows online without one, its illegal to listen to music on youtube from unofficial users, its illegal to download cracked software, but everyone falls in it, i gauntness many here broke SE's NDA. now I know you're going to see that with one eye and think "oh so that makes it fine?", think of it as everyone goes around rules, bend rules, rules as whole mean nothing, they're just a subset to what the persons interests are and only when caught using "his own rules" we'll shall call it, will the official rules take priority.

You see me not sharing the "whats right" opinion of hating botters and thus im defined ignorant.

If you cant provide any facts/proof as to how bots damage gameplay then please share this need to anti-bot for "rules" sake. I would love to know why people have a true hatred for bots. (Not RMT, not hackers, botters and only them)

[Malakhim]

I'm afraid that I have to side with Viion at least on a temporary basis simply due to the fact that absolutely NOTHING matters in the game currently.

We have no idea what's going to change, how, and when, and that's not counting the game going pay to play eventually. It isn't an exaggeration to assert that those who bot literally have no effect on your game experience currently.

But this goes for botters as well. Why would you even waste your time botting on something that you generally find boring in the first place? I mean yeah, that's probably the line of thought that makes one want to bot, but seriously, go spend your time and resources on doing something engaging to you. You're not really gaining anything right now except a higher power bill.

Like Kuro says, they'll probably start cracking down on them when it actually matters.

Also, while they're two different things, that doesn't mean they remain mutually exclusive to eachother. Plenty of RMT folks bot.

[Malakhim]

What does anyone actually gain from boting in this game? Gil is plentiful enough that only the most braindead of monkeys would actually buy FFXIV gil, and nowhere near enough people are playing the game to where you can have a constant stream of income for your other classes anyway, and if gil is what you're after, see my first point.

[Peregrine]

What does anyone actually gain from boting in this game? Gil is plentiful enough that only the most braindead of monkeys would actually buy FFXIV gil, and nowhere near enough people are playing the game to where you can have a constant stream of income for your other classes anyway, and if gil is what you're after, see my first point.

They gain position to ride the bubble on several crafts when the level cap is raised again, new synths are added, etc. In the plausible event that gil does become viable and certain wanted items are expensive, they'll have the tools to beat everyone else to the price with. It's an investment...that they put no investement in.

[viion]

What does anyone actually gain from boting in this game? Gil is plentiful enough that only the most braindead of monkeys would actually buy FFXIV gil, and nowhere near enough people are playing the game to where you can have a constant stream of income for your other classes anyway, and if gil is what you're after, see my first point.

2 separate things........ botting is not RMT botting is botting, RMT is RMT.

Another reason I dont give a crap if people bot, cuse some cant be bothered to learn the difference.