Tanaka or Yoshi?

[darkstarpoet1]

crab parties were another mage trick! i got more on efts, skel, bats, vultures ahriman hogs. definately puks, we cleaned up on puks at one point.

crabs were really bad due to high defense, only got good procs off of status effects on em for me, and they took too long to kill even when i did cap. raptors were a good balance

course i was a pug, so maybe i needed softer targets

every mob was a mage sp mob pre patch. they had sp enhancements on every mob. the point was not all mages took the time to find out how to abuse it. mages got double sp in eft parties as well if they knew what they were doing. there is a reason my group partied with a mage that got both thm and con to 30 grinding before we got our first class to 30.

[Shai]

Under the old system, the most efficient way to get SP was to remove all gear, equip the worst weapon you had, and whail on mobs.

This was never true. It was just what people did because they like to see "500SP!" every 10 minutes as opposed to "80SP" every thirty seconds. One is more than the other. I was never one of those people - actually the MORE damage you did the more SP you got. Minimal damage produced minimal SP that you needed to spam for a ridiculously long time to hit the "cap." It wasn't a perfect system, but I was among the minority who was pretty disappointed when he threw it out in favor of the XI style of grinding. I'm also going to be pretty pissed if this new battle system is XI's battle system, but I reserve that judgment for later.

Edit: Ah, I see Physic already covered this. I see my name and I go buck wild. ^^ Note to self, read the thread. It's refreshing to see people who did understand how SP worked back then. It really wasn't perfect, but it solved a lot of problems AFK leveling among them. It needed some fine tuning, not to be sent to the junk yard (in my opinion).

Also - trust me, you don't have to tell me what a ... indignant ... (treading lightly since this is SE's forum) rude, person Tanaka could be or how he gets butt hurt over fan responses to his brilliance. But he took a lot of crap for some of the things in XIV that really just were misunderstood. In some regard, I don't exactly blame him. In others I wonder what he was thinking. (Such as if you didn't want to get beat up over the Market Wards vs AH, why didn't you make sure the Wards worked to begin with)?

[Shai]

incorrect. they were no where even close to the same. if you got in a 3-4 hour grind party with the original system the mages would get 2-3x as much sp as any mele class.

Haha this is not my experience at all!

My leveling group (outside of the big 15man groups) were 3 mages a GLD and 2 PGL.

Those 2 PGL hit the SP cap so much faster! (Ants in Copperbell). The 3 mages would spam spells and hope for an SP proc, but it really would have (might have) been better with 1 healer. I spammed all that I could spam and often walked away with 200SP when the PGL got 600 SP. It was driving me crazy. A good Heal Proc (on everyone) and you could get 110 SP ... PER PERSON ... but the proc rate was pretty low if I recall. It was better to spam nukes and hit mobs for 80-90 SP proc while waiting for that AOE cure.

AOE buffs were also good. Sometimes 20-30 SP per person. Sweet-diculous in the 15 man jumble F parties. Imagine always being buffed and never being poisoned or paralyzed because your mages competed for that PROC? I loved that system, man. It was much faster (of a grind, and a kill, and paying attention or you miss out on your SP opportunities).

I would have taken either of Physics tweaks: a soft SP minimum or lower SP (per action) for 100% procs. That would have solved the 0SP on some fights which was massively disappointing. It was in fact my only complaint so I was mad when that complaint = new SP system.

[Duelle]

Quest hubs, instanced dungeons, these two things will do the complete opposite of what Tanaka wanted. He wanted to band the community together and create big airships and boats and headquarters and stuff. Instances(4 man) and quest hubs(solo prob?) will make the community smaller, and grow into small cliques, making this MMO more anti-social, instead of more social.

Tanaka's dream was wonderful. I wish it could've came true ;_;

More rose-colored goggle nonsense. The cliques exist either way. The cliques have a MUCH bigger impact in games like FFXI where your progression is tied to a large group of people. Such games also can stunt someone's growth for not being with the "right" crowd.

As far as the whole "Yoshida hasn't done much", I will say what got him looked upon so favorably was the fact that FFXI made a complete 180 in development not long after he was put in charge. It's not much seeing that SE was ignoring that game hoping players jumped to FFXIV, but its there. The deal breaker with Yoshida will be what happens to the hybrid jobs under his watch. Tanaka has lolDRK (pre two-hander update) and refresh whore RDM under his belt. Hopefully Yoshi-P doesn't go down that path.

[gifthorse]

More rose-colored goggle nonsense. The cliques exist either way. The cliques have a MUCH bigger impact in games like FFXI where your progression is tied to a large group of people. Such games also can stunt someone's growth for not being with the "right" crowd.

As far as the whole "Yoshida hasn't done much", I will say what got him looked upon so favorably was the fact that FFXI made a complete 180 in development not long after he was put in charge. It's not much seeing that SE was ignoring that game hoping players jumped to FFXIV, but its there. The deal breaker with Yoshida will be what happens to the hybrid jobs under his watch. Tanaka has lolDRK (pre two-hander update) and refresh whore RDM under his belt. Hopefully Yoshi-P doesn't go down that path.

I think we should stop looking at Tanaka's foibles with FFXI and instead look at his successes with FFXIV, which were all mainly in response to his prior mistakes. From my perspective, Tanaka seemed to be taking FFXIV somewhere new and exciting. I don't know about you, but quest hubs just don't fascinate me as much as the rest of the populace.

[Duelle]

I think we should stop looking at Tanaka's foibles with FFXI and instead look at his successes with FFXIV, which were all mainly in response to his prior mistakes. From my perspective, Tanaka seemed to be taking FFXIV somewhere new and exciting. I don't know about you, but quest hubs just don't fascinate me as much as the rest of the populace.

I can go either way on the hubs, though I do know it would bring back a couple of people I know who left XIV if they turned out to be similar to WoW's quest hubs. My main thing, as you can tell, is more on the class design side.

[Lavinia]

Ok for starters Tanaka Job System in XI was interesting it made people with certain classes desirable but made it hard for others. Thats how we came to the Armory system a way to develop characters with no classes and so they can all level equally.
Thats good I liked it but the System was broken on the balance to the game-play.

Now many say Yoshi/P hasn't done much. But If we compare how is he starting to bring up the new events where he has been able to create some hype around where his updates all come together on the lore.

I Can say bring Tanaka and Yoshi together many have posted it before Tanaka is a veteran developing games but he PHAIL at making content that can make people intrigued or exited that's where we are seeing Yoshi shine right now with he Hype has been able to create. After he add the new battle system we will be able to argue if he can bring what Tanaka did when producing games but until then Yoshi is an entertainer and Tanaka is a Create and leave it guy

[gifthorse]

I can go either way on the hubs, though I do know it would bring back a couple of people I know who left XIV if they turned out to be similar to WoW's quest hubs. My main thing, as you can tell, is more on the class design side.

Does the progression system in FFXIV even give much meaning to quest hubs though? Personally, I probably will never participate in the quests without a proper incentive to do so. And unless they are throwing out Guildleves in the near future, I don't see quest hubs really proving too influential.

What would really separate FFXIV from other games in the genre if they went back to the original Version Update schedule.

More quests wouldn't hurt, but I fail to assess their priority. I think the game would benefit more from different avenues of content as opposed to quest hubs a la WoW.

[zaviermhigo]

I don't want this game to turn into every other mmo where you quest and quest and quest, in FFXI quests were convoluted, and you did have to look them up in a wiki. They honestly weren't more engaging than these quests, but some of them had cut scenes which made them pretty cool.

So basically, no to quest driven gameplay, and no to XI's style of quests with no information, but I guess maybe yes to more cut scenes (basic ones, no real motion actors needed)

[gifthorse]

I don't want this game to turn into every other mmo where you quest and quest and quest, in FFXI quests were convoluted, and you did have to look them up in a wiki. They honestly weren't more engaging than these quests, but some of them had cut scenes which made them pretty cool.

So basically, no to quest driven gameplay, and no to XI's style of quests with no information, but I guess maybe yes to more cut scenes (basic ones, no real motion actors needed)

Yes, quests should be a matter of quality over quantity as opposed to just "a thing to occupy the players".

Adding questing hubs to a game with a progression system tied to guildleves seems kind of superfulous, unless of course the quests are actually very entertaining content. I cannot fault a quest if it is fun and interesting. But if it's more of what we already have, then is it really worth sacrificing the other features in Tanaka's original Version update schedule for them?