For all you warrior tanks out there... end game we are not viable.

[Furio]

You want proof? here is server 1st ADS: http://www.twitch.tv/lleuca/c/2892948

Hmm... She's pretty hot.

[oceanlord]

Hmm... She's pretty hot.

seconded

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[SolAeternus]

Not surprised at all. I started getting this feeling at level 41 on Stone Vigil. When I was getting spammed with Cure 2 to be kept alive while PLD tanks get Cure 1 half the time and are fine. It's sad really.

I'll never understand comments like this.


It's not sad at all. PLD is suppose to be the best tank.

People keep complaining like this then PLD ends up becoming worthless and no one plays them and everyone complains about PLD not being able to tank anything.

[Vayhem]

Because it seems to me so far that everything is so easy anyway that all of PLDs abilities amount to little more than cushioning for sloppy play.

<3

[Kitru]

PLD is suppose to be the best tank.

Is there *anything* to support this except for the conjecture of PALs? Intelligent game design says that you shouldn't design any one class within a given role to be better than the others. The devs themselves have stated that they want the classes to be *balanced* within those roles.

Both WAR and PAL *should* be able to tank equally well. This means that they should be able to maintain threat roughly on par with each other and mitigate damage roughly on par with each other. Otherwise, one gets played and used disproportionately more than the other thanks to gameplay inequalities influencing player decision. As it stands, PAL is explicitly better: both tanks can generate more than enough threat (which is all that really matters where a tank is concerned; redundant threat is, just that, redundant), but one tank is explicitly better at mitigation. That's not a balanced state and, as such, not something that should be considered an acceptable state of affairs.

Hell, it's not like there's even much question of what needs to be done: give WARs roughly 10% more self healing, either on Defiance itself or by buffing Wrath stacks to 5% instead of 3% and everything will be golden.

[BIGBADWOLF]

Just wondering but wouldn't it also workout if they increase our damage output enough to make up for the lack of heal percentage since our heal is based off our damage delt? This would also generate threat faster too would it not? I'm not entirely sure on all this so I'm asking a question before I come back to see tons of flame posts or people calling me retarded this is a question....So treat it as such.

[Kiteless]

Just wondering but wouldn't it also workout if they increase our damage output enough to make up for the lack of heal percentage since our heal is based off our damage delt? This would also generate threat faster too would it not? I'm not entirely sure on all this so I'm asking a question before I come back to see tons of flame posts or people calling me retarded this is a question....So treat it as such.

No. We only have three skills that heal via attacks. Bloodbath, Storm's Path, and Inner Beast. The heals granted by Bloodbath and Storm's Path are so small that they might as well be insignificant, and to increase our damage output to the point of making them any degree of functional would require us to hit harder than most DPS. Inner Beast, while a solid heal, especially once buffed with Berserk/Inner Release, can only be used with full stacks of wrath, and generally, you'll want to save those until you have Infuriate up (in order to maximize healer's efficiency), so you can't use it very often either. Even using it as much as possible, you won't be able to mitigate damage done to you on a meaningful and consistent level. You're looking at around 15 seconds between each heal, and that's just too much for what you get to be considered viable.

I'll never understand comments like this.


It's not sad at all. PLD is suppose to be the best tank.

People keep complaining like this then PLD ends up becoming worthless and no one plays them and everyone complains about PLD not being able to tank anything.

So... kind of like WAR right now. So what makes it appropriate for WAR to be worthless, but not for PLD? They both are meant to fulfill the same roll. Each class should be able to excel at different things and use different methods, but both should be able to function competently, and largely with similar to equal efficiency, within the same roll, since they are built with the same role in mind.

[Coramac]

Aside from Defiance not granting Healing Bonus baseline and just being crap anyway when compared to Shield Oath, I am fine with where we are at. I don't care if we get buffed.

I think that if Defiance were given healing bonus baseline, preferably increased to 20-25%, most of the issues go away.

Because it seems to me so far that everything is so easy anyway that all of PLDs abilities amount to little more than cushioning for sloppy play.

I tanked Fennin Ro on my Shaman when Planes of Power was current content before we killed Quarm. I watch an Enchanter tank Xegony. Clearly, there was no problem because everything was so easy for a highly organized raiding at the front lines for edge content.

[HiirNoivl]

Warriors get chunked hard and can only respond with reactive burst healing.

Hello,

And yes, I agree completely. I've been giving this thread a lot more consideration, I've gone back and taken a look at the skills of a WAR. While I will be trying to build a set up to get that magic 9999 number, expecting a healer to supply that is unrealistic. Other people will likely need healing too and there's only so much MP that a healer has.

My conclusion is, while stacking VIT for Max HP is important, it will only take you so far. WAR self healing is infinite HP for as long as the monster lives. Currently, I have over 7k as a base, but my self heals have not scaled as much, making it more difficult on healers (well, except SCH, you beasts). Therefore, as much as some folks will decry this decision, I'll be foregoing any further acquisitions in favor of Vit and moving to STR instead.

What led me to this conclusion? An honest assessment of the limits of VIT as well as realizing that WAR skills refer to STR, Attacks and attack potency for about 16 times and Max HP only 4 times. While VIT is still important and I'm not going to drop below 7k, adding another 2k HP is a pointless, climbing-it-because-its-there, exercise. At endgame, WARs need to maximize self-healing. WARs need to maximize Damage Dealt.

Self healing relies almost entirely on damage dealt. Damage Dealt relies on Stats like Strength, Accuracy, Crit Rate, Skill Speed and Determination. On the AF2 stats, for every 8 points of Vitality there is 7 points of STR. In other gear, the stats are similar, with Vit contributing only a few points more than STR was. So WAR cannot be viable, I believe, without contributing as much points to your Attack potency as you do to VIT.

I had planned to go for more DL jewelry of Fending, but I've since changed my mind. My neck and my ear slots were the next to get upgraded and I've decided to go with Maiming or Striking...and probably both since I will definitely want to stack Skill Speed if there was a SCH in the group. (You beasts!)

[Vic_Viper]

TBH I disagree heavily with buying darklight strength pieces. You are giving up the WAR's best survivability option (HP) for a modest increase to inner-beast which should only used in reaction to big attacks followed by infuriate in order to maintain the heal buff. Trading hundreds of HP to get like 100 or less extra lifesteal isn't worth it. With lower HP all you are really doing is giving healers even less time to top you off before the next big attack. You are also making skills like stoneskin and thrill of battle less useful.