Old FFXI minds vs New Generation ideas

[Moth]

My point is that the game developers should try and foster players by equipping them with the power and tools to create something in this world for themselves. Everyone has fond memories of FFXI but we left nothing behind when we left that game. Our presence there meant nothing to the world because the world would always be the same without us. The landscape didn't change because of us, the beastmen didn't shrink in population because of us, nothing we did ever mattered. Our linkshells did nothing but run instances and kill NMs and party to max level and gear grind... in a practical sense, we never created anything.

I think a MMO should work to help players create things and not just create everything for them already.

I believe it is a matter of opinion then... of course the world did not change. It is a video game. But I had a very different experience with my linkshell and my friends on that game. I created life-long friendships and partnerships that have lasted with me to this day. That game made a huge impact on my life and I loved every minute of it, even the bad times.

I agree it /would/ be interesting to see the players actually affect the world somehow... like if a botanist cut down a tree that tree would remain cut down forever and such. But it /is/ just a game, and doing that would require an un-imaginable amount of technology and money irl to implement it all. I just don't see something like that happening, but I do agree with you that it would be an interesting concept.

[Ostia]

I believe it is a matter of opinion then... of course the world did not change. It is a video game. But I had a very different experience with my linkshell and my friends on that game. I created life-long friendships and partnerships that have lasted with me to this day. That game made a huge impact on my life and I loved every minute of it, even the bad times.

I agree it /would/ be interesting to see the players actually affect the world somehow... like if a botanist cut down a tree that tree would remain cut down forever and such. But it /is/ just a game, and doing that would require an un-imaginable amount of technology and money irl to implement it all. I just don't see something like that happening, but I do agree with you that it would be an interesting concept.

I like your later idea in your comment, someway in wish the player affects the world, that would be good, maybe not forever but how about until server restarts ?

[gifthorse]

I believe it is a matter of opinion then... of course the world did not change. It is a video game. But I had a very different experience with my linkshell and my friends on that game. I created life-long friendships and partnerships that have lasted with me to this day. That game made a huge impact on my life and I loved every minute of it, even the bad times.

I agree it /would/ be interesting to see the players actually affect the world somehow... like if a botanist cut down a tree that tree would remain cut down forever and such. But it /is/ just a game, and doing that would require an un-imaginable amount of technology and money irl to implement it all. I just don't see something like that happening, but I do agree with you that it would be an interesting concept.

Lol...

So every game like ArcheAge, Mortal Online, and Darkfall just don't exist then?

[Moth]

Lol...

So every game like ArcheAge, Mortal Online, and Darkfall just don't exist then?

In this game that already has so many laggy and interface problems, I just don't see it happening. Sorry.

[Rhianu]

i can tell u now that wow is on a decline. cataclysm ruined wow for ALOT of people. they killed endgame, they killed pugging instances thru the dungeon finder. not to mention dailies, crafting, pvp, and a simplified talent tree. if you go on wow forums its post after post of disappointments.

People have been insisting that WoW is declining ever since 2007 when the first expansion pack, The Burning Crusade, came out. At that time, Blizzard reported around 9 million subscribers, but many people kept trying to say that the actual population had dwindled down to something like 4 million simply because they had seen some people on the forums and in their guilds quit the game. Of course WoW's population had not, in fact, dwindled at all, and actually continued to grow, and now numbers over 12 million subscribers, with the latest expansion pack, Cataclysm, breaking the world record for fastest selling PC game of all time.

Basically what I'm saying here is don't assume WoW is declining just because a couple of your friends rage quit.

[Rowyne]

Thank goodness someone had the courage to start this thread.

Let me preface this by saying that I played FFXI for four years. It was my first MMO and will always hold a special place in my heart. It was after that my husband convinced me to play World of Warcraft with him, which I've also played for four years. I also gave about six months to both Warhammer and Aion. I've seen both sides.

I don't agree that the majority of FFXIV's players have been FFXI vets with no other game experience. I believe the first player's poll did indeed say otherwise. Plus, FFXI was released for NA 8 years ago, in a time when the market was severely limited. There are many game choices now, and most people have at least dabbled in something else.

But it is probably true that most of the players that still remain are the holdouts, the FFXI vets, and the FF diehards.

I agree with the OP that I'm also seeing something that's a problem. FFXI vets that have the old man syndrome. "Well, back in my day we had to walk to Jeuno, uphill, just to get a chocobo license". And that if it was good enough for FFXI, it's good enough for FFXIV. And that attitude will only continue to hold this game back. It's the reason Tanaka is no longer steering this ship. His ideas were old hat. It was time to look to the future, to bring in Yoshida, a fresh face that was more in touch with the modern MMO scene and its players.

There is a reason FFXIV was built from the ground up instead of just overhauling FFXI or developing FFXI-2. The idea was to create something different. And this is why many people were willing to give this game a chance in the first place.

Again, FFXI holds special memories for me, but it wasn't without its problems. When I started playing World of Warcraft, there were so many things that made me say, "Wow, this is SO much more convenient! It just makes more sense." Conversely, the first time I got into FFXIV closed beta, I was flooded with memories of FFXI. And they weren't good ones. The controls, the camera, the menus, the combat, the crafting, it all felt so archiac. I was shocked, because I had believed that FFXIV wasn't going to be FFXI with prettier graphics. I thought it was going to be the next-generation MMO that it claimed to be.

If the FFXI fanbase that is so obviously loathe to change doesn't let Yoshida bring FFXIV into the next decade, there will have been no reason to create a new MMO. SE might as well have remade FFXI because the unsatisfied players who have left won't come back.

[the_limitless]

TBH I still don't get why many people still think that any MMO can even challenge WoW, what western mmo has ever succeeded in getting more than 1 million sub(probably guild wars but it is not technically an MMO), and many of them are WoW clones.

WoW has more than 10 million subs and still growing not because Wow is the best mmo(i am not indicating wow is bad, it is a really good game, just not my type of game), but it's because wow bring in gamers who don't even has any mmo history under their belt, who thinks that wow is the best game eva cause it has 10 mil sub. The population of wow is obviously will keep growing because it is almost impossible to pry these people away from WoW.

The fact that FF14 has seamless worlds (chances are inspired by WoW) which create one hella lag for the real time battle spammers (prob trying to be different to the auto attacking system of FF11 and once again WoW), to the solo friendly system which create the screwed up job system(prob to matched WoW solo friendly content) to its rushed release(prob trying to release it before cataclysm), which resulted in the lack of content, are pretty much the reasons of FF14 failures.

[gifthorse]

TBH I still don't get why many people still think that any MMO can even challenge WoW, what western mmo has ever succeeded in getting more than 1 million sub(probably guild wars but it is not technically an MMO), and many of them are WoW clones.

WoW has more than 10 million subs and still growing not because Wow is the best mmo(i am not indicating wow is bad, it is a really good game, just not my type of game), but it's because wow bring in gamers who don't even has any mmo history under their belt, who thinks that wow is the best game eva cause it has 10 mil sub. The population of wow is obviously will keep growing because it is almost impossible to pry these people away from WoW.

The fact that FF14 has seamless worlds (chances are inspired by WoW) which create one hella lag for the real time battle spammers (prob trying to be different to the auto attacking system of FF11 and once again WoW), to the solo friendly system which create the screwed up job system(prob to matched WoW solo friendly content) to its rushed release(prob trying to release it before cataclysm), which resulted in the lack of content, are pretty much the reasons of FF14 failures.

Or maybe the seamless zones were inspired by the desire to create a bigger, more natural world. Or perhaps inspired by every other MMO title coming out this generation...

WoW isn't the only MMO. Get a grip.

Also, in the first place, FFXIV isn't seemless, it just has large zones. The large zones are one reason why repeating doodads had to be used and why people complain of copy/paste areas. A true seamless engine loads in the environment around the player as the players moves without the need for loading screens, FFXIV instead loads in huge zones at a time, hence the loading screens. And I don't see how this could create lag for spamming actions... The server is under no more stress in these huge zones than in smaller ones. The lag is more of a network issue than an engine one.

Edit:

Also, what screwed up your so-called sacred job system wasn't a shift to being more solo-friendly. The job system was scrapped for a more complex and flexible armory system, which gave people the choice to create their own class, something an MMO Role playing game should encourage.

The solo-friendly aspects were a direct result of complaints made in FFXI about never being able to get anywhere without a party, as it was practically impossible to solo any mobs that even gave 1SP without a party.

[Moth]

Or maybe the seamless zones were inspired by the desire to create a bigger, more natural world. Or perhaps inspired by every other MMO title coming out this generation...

WoW isn't the only MMO. Get a grip.

Also, in the first place, FFXIV isn't seemless, it just has large zones. The large zones are one reason why repeating doodads had to be used and why people complain of copy/paste areas. A true seamless engine loads in the environment around the player as the players moves without the need for loading screens, FFXIV instead loads in huge zones at a time, hence the loading screens. And I don't see how this could create lag for spamming actions... The server is under no more stress in these huge zones than in smaller ones. The lag is more of a network issue than an engine one.

Thanks gifthorse,
Heh I was going to reply to that post with something similar along these lines, I even wrote out some long wall of text but decided it was best to just not say anything.. it is hard to make WoWers believe in anything /but/ Wow, ya know? But you took the words right out of my mouth. *thumbs up*

[kukurumei]

Edit:

Also, what screwed up your so-called sacred job system wasn't a shift to being more solo-friendly. The job system was scrapped for a more complex and flexible armory system, which gave people the choice to create their own class, something an MMO Role playing game should encourage.

The solo-friendly aspects were a direct result of complaints made in FFXI about never being able to get anywhere without a party, as it was practically impossible to solo any mobs that even gave 1SP without a party.

What is this I hear... oh yes, player polls, and reviews....what...flexible is crap...yes yes...I understand... we are going back to the world of inflexible class and role designations...

But...why would we want to not have everything to choose from at our finger tips? Because it's doesn't work in practice as everyone becomes the same. Melee, semi melee, and healer-melee... Spam-on!