YOSHI FIX THE DANG GIL ISSUE THAT IS KILLING OUR PLAYERS!!!

[Scrubbs]

Your personal wealth is irrelevant to the economy as a whole, you only have more because someone else has less. Trading on the market board only worsens the situation as it siphons additional gil out of the economy.

Um ... yea that's how economy works. Some have more, some have less. You introduce money into the economy w/o the backing and you introduce inflation, making gil worthless.

[Menubrea]

Um ... yea that's how economy works. Some have more, some have less. You introduce money into the economy w/o the backing and you introduce inflation, making gil worthless.

No, this is not the recipe for a functional economy. My comment in regards to what Scrubbs said is that is his personal wealth is irrelevant to the situation as a whole, because it is. I am well aware that in any economy some will always have more than others. The problem here is that eventually no one, but a select few playing the market will have nothing, because there's such a massive deflation in the economy after the initial monetary gain through the storyline.

[amnie]

Um ... yea that's how economy works. Some have more, some have less. You introduce money into the economy w/o the backing and you introduce inflation, making gil worthless.

that is NOT how 'economy' works.

blackmarket takes money out of the game. gil you pay as a commission is NO LONGER available for ANYone. this is not exactly comparable to an ebay fee which is paying the people 'behind' ebay.

tax isn't money taken 'out' of real life economy, either, as it's used for building stuff, paying workers (or state servants), who in turn buy stuff for that money

'economy' does NOT take money out unless there's a serious inflation or you have something like a new currency appearing. for example when several countries with completely different economic value decide on a common currency. that happened roughly 10 years ago... I know that's a long time in internet but still.

please don't talk about how economy works when you obviously have no clue.

[Scrubbs]

snip

Would it make you feel better if the NPCs of the world built bigger and better buildings for you to see then? The money is taken to a place where you cannot use it. You no longer have access to it, just like real life. There are no fees going to NPCs because the NPCs are static. If SE brings in a large amount of gil or ways to quickly amass gil then gil becomes worthless. You see things on the AH for millions of gil, which happened pretty quick in XI from what I remember. You can't compare a game economy to real life economy. Please don't talk about how economies work when you obviously have no clue.

[AsakuraVN]

Would it make you feel better if the NPCs of the world built bigger and better buildings for you to see then? The money is taken to a place where you cannot use it. You no longer have access to it, just like real life. There are no fees going to NPCs because the NPCs are static. If SE brings in a large amount of gil or ways to quickly amass gil then gil becomes worthless. You see things on the AH for millions of gil, which happened pretty quick in XI from what I remember. You can't compare a game economy to real life economy. Please don't talk about how economies work when you obviously have no clue.

You see, in real life, you give your money away, that money doesn't just disappear, it goes to another ppl hand so they can spend it, for example, they buy products from your company, then that money goes to your boss, then your boss pay YOU, it goes around in a circle!

It's a little different in MMOs, depend on which subscription model game has, but it based on the same rules too, if there are money sinks, there must be money fountains, you would understand if you play enough MMO & actually care about how they work. This is an example of how money goes around in GW2: http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...GW2Economy.jpg, feel free to educate yourself

[Scrubbs]

Snip

Mmmm ok. I'll agree that if you have more money leaving the game that isn't circulating than is coming in, then there's a problem. SE needs to balance the money coming in with the money going out if that's the case. If players could repair armor (and charge a fee if they wish), then that would be money circulating instead of money leaving. As it is though, I believe player repairs cost more than quick repairs, which have more money going out than is coming in via SE's means. I understand the problem now.

[Deatheye]

Mmmm ok. I'll agree that if you have more money leaving the game that isn't circulating than is coming in, then there's a problem. SE needs to balance the money coming in with the money going out if that's the case. If players could repair armor (and charge a fee if they wish), then that would be money circulating instead of money leaving. As it is though, I believe player repairs cost more than quick repairs, which have more money going out than is coming in via SE's means. I understand the problem now.

Even if Players could easily repair other People stuff, Dark Matter would still be a Problem. Right now it's only worth to reapir your gear yourself if everything is pretty much at 0%. Reason beeing that the NPC repair costs changes depending on how much damage your gear has. I'm making the number up cause I dont know them exactly.
Lets asume a Darkmatter Piece costs 350. A full repair for an Item from the NPC costs 500.
If the Item is down to 0% repairing it manually saves you Money, but still costs you 350.
If the Item is at 50% and you want to get it to full cause you don't know how often you will die in the next dungeon, the NPC only costs you 250.
Everyway you can generate Gil or aquire Dark Matter actually breakes your gear and allready causes repair costs.
For some reason it Looks like something is totaly off. SE sad they basically cut down everything by removing one Zero. V1 Players got one Zero removed from the gil they had. But repair did never cost 50'000 in V1.. Actually it was free cause Dark Matter droped in instances.
You either could use that to repair yourself if you had the crafting class or you could activate a request repair function where someone else could select you and repair the Equipment you had on using your darkmater. I don't understand why the repair Prices did Change to cost so much more, why the reapir request did get removed and why Dark Matter doesn't drop anymore.

Just knowing this changes makes it pretty obvious that repairing gear costs much more compared to V1.

I run dungeons all the time and afk in town; I have over 1 million gil. There are many ways to make gil, each person just needs to find their Niche in the economy. Of course I do agree that once someone hits 50, gil from non-player sources comes to a halt. There is a limited amount of gil in the economy and that 1 million simply means others have spent their 200~k from quests.

Now think about what this means if someone can't buy anthing anymore from you? Cant do anything in the game anymore cause of broken gear....Cause he can't generate Gil...
And some part of his 200k didn't go to you but just dissapeared... How are you going to get Money if noone else has anymore to buy stuff from you?

Really People what's so hard to understand about this? O_O

Serious I'm starting to get psychosomatic sympthoms about all this People not getting what the supposed Problem is and talking about something totally different...

[amnie]

Would it make you feel better if the NPCs of the world built bigger and better buildings for you to see then? The money is taken to a place where you cannot use it. You no longer have access to it, just like real life. There are no fees going to NPCs because the NPCs are static. If SE brings in a large amount of gil or ways to quickly amass gil then gil becomes worthless. You see things on the AH for millions of gil, which happened pretty quick in XI from what I remember. You can't compare a game economy to real life economy. Please don't talk about how economies work when you obviously have no clue.

I replied to you comparing game economy to real life economy, smartass.
and just so you know, if the game let PLAYERS (crafter, for example) build bigger houses I'd absolutely be for it. in fact, I think that's an awesome idea for a great in-game economy and overall community. too bad ARR is not a so-called 'sandbox' game, though.

[Scrubbs]

I replied to you comparing game economy to real life economy, smartass.
and just so you know, if the game let PLAYERS (crafter, for example) build bigger houses I'd absolutely be for it. in fact, I think that's an awesome idea for a great in-game economy and overall community. too bad ARR is not a so-called 'sandbox' game, though.

Mmm no pretty sure you were the first person to mention anything having to do with real life scenarios. I simply said that if SE floods us with gil, it becomes worthless, as has happened in many other MMOs. However, I understand the main problem of the OP now, so our scuffle is moot. I agree that a balance must be struck for the good of the economy.

Even if Players could easily repair other People stuff, Dark Matter would still be a Problem. Right now it's only worth to reapir your gear yourself if everything is pretty much at 0%. Reason beeing that the NPC repair costs changes depending on how much damage your gear has. I'm making the number up cause I dont know them exactly.
Lets asume a Darkmatter Piece costs 350. A full repair for an Item from the NPC costs 500.
If the Item is down to 0% repairing it manually saves you Money, but still costs you 350.
If the Item is at 50% and you want to get it to full cause you don't know how often you will die in the next dungeon, the NPC only costs you 250.
Everyway you can generate Gil or aquire Dark Matter actually breakes your gear and allready causes repair costs.
For some reason it Looks like something is totaly off. SE sad they basically cut down everything by removing one Zero. V1 Players got one Zero removed from the gil they had. But repair did never cost 50'000 in V1.. Actually it was free cause Dark Matter droped in instances.
You either could use that to repair yourself if you had the crafting class or you could activate a request repair function where someone else could select you and repair the Equipment you had on using your darkmater. I don't understand why the repair Prices did Change to cost so much more, why the reapir request did get removed and why Dark Matter doesn't drop anymore.

Just knowing this changes makes it pretty obvious that repairing gear costs much more compared to V1.


Now think about what this means if someone can't buy anthing anymore from you? Cant do anything in the game anymore cause of broken gear....Cause he can't generate Gil...
And some part of his 200k didn't go to you but just dissapeared... How are you going to get Money if noone else has anymore to buy stuff from you?

Really People what's so hard to understand about this? O_O

Serious I'm starting to get psychosomatic sympthoms about all this People not getting what the supposed Problem is and talking about something totally different...

I meant by allowing players to repair armor, that they would give the players everything they needed to actually do the repairs in a cost effective and player-driven way. I guess I should have specified that :P

[maxxp]

that is NOT how 'economy' works.

blackmarket takes money out of the game. gil you pay as a commission is NO LONGER available for ANYone. this is not exactly comparable to an ebay fee which is paying the people 'behind' ebay.

tax isn't money taken 'out' of real life economy, either, as it's used for building stuff, paying workers (or state servants), who in turn buy stuff for that money

'economy' does NOT take money out unless there's a serious inflation or you have something like a new currency appearing. for example when several countries with completely different economic value decide on a common currency. that happened roughly 10 years ago... I know that's a long time in internet but still.

please don't talk about how economy works when you obviously have no clue.

They also don't add currency to the real world economy every time someone new is born either.