The way Square Enix depicts our characters...are we helpless, or are we heroes?

[Abriael]

I like the "being more experienced as you progress further" idea. The stories can show that we have gotten stronger, as we have, and that doesn't take away from the fact that many others have gotten stronger as well. It fits.

Considering that those "many others" don't appear *at all* in the storyline (because there's no logical way to make them appear), that part is completely inconsequential.

If you have nothing to say, why say anything? You keep circling around the fact that the story makes you seem like an ordinary adventurer among everyone else that you are and will be regardless of what happens. You said nothing that would go against this fact, and you won't.

Again, because you said so? Ignoring the arguments that prove you wrong doesn't make you right, you know?

[Randis]

I don't want to be depicted as a "lone hero" in a MMO.

But the thing is, you usually never are a lone Hero in a offline RPG, in all FF titles you usually always end up with a large team of people at the end. in Tactics you have a whole clan even and the only difference between the main character and the hired guns is that they have no lines in cutscenes.

I think no one asks to start out as a hero... its is merely about being involved in the story and in FFXIV you are not involved much... you only get to hear about the story. everything is exciting in cut scenes, wars and all but once you finish your mission you will see that there is absolutely nothing going on in the world at all.

- We do not get to fight in the battles.
- We do not participate in any of the big events
- we have no storyline quests where you are asked to team up with others.

the story does not make any use of the fact that we are a large number of adventurers.
The story in fact feels like a single player game (just not as interesting and you are no hero)

The story goes against simple logic. If 95% of the population are adventurers, then why is the resistance in such small numbers despite the known fact that we all play the same quests?

Why are we not recruited in large groups?

Another thing is...
Story quests R1 - R20 IMO are rather boring and tell nothing much about what is going on.
By the time you are R50 you have only had a couple story missions, that is not much...
do your maths, how many hours did you spend getting a couple jobs to r50? How much story did you get during that time?
little!
Even if the level cap goes up to 75 anytime soon, with 50 you already advanced more than half and for that much we get much to little.

[SilvertearRen]

But the thing is, you usually never are a lone Hero in a offline RPG, in all FF titles you usually always end up with a large team of people at the end. in Tactics you have a whole clan even and the only difference between the main character and the hired guns is that they have no lines in cutscenes.

I think no one asks to start out as a hero... its is merely about being involved in the story and in FFXIV you are not involved much... you only get to hear about the story. everything is exciting in cut scenes, wars and all but once you finish your mission you will see that there is absolutely nothing going on in the world at all.

- We do not get to fight in the battles.
- We do not participate in any of the big events
- we have no storyline quests where you are asked to team up with others.

the story does not make any use of the fact that we are a large number of adventurers.
The story in fact feels like a single player game (just not as interesting and you are no hero)

The story goes against simple logic. If 95% of the population are adventurers, then why is the resistance in such small numbers despite the known fact that we all play the same quests?

Why are we not recruited in large groups?

Another thing is...
Story quests R1 - R20 IMO are rather boring and tell nothing much about what is going on.
By the time you are R50 you have only had a couple story missions, that is not much...
do your maths, how many hours did you spend getting a couple jobs to r50? How much story did you get during that time?
little!
Even if the level cap goes up to 75 anytime soon, with 50 you already advanced more than half and for that much we get much to little.

Here's a fun tidbit: If you're in a party for the R46 Futures Perfect quest, you can have up to 3 party members. And guess what? They get depicted in the cutscene as you pursue the Garlean Centurion through Mor Dhona. That was pretty neat. Found out about it myself last night.

Though, the problem still stands.

[Betelgeuzah]

Considering that those "many others" don't appear *at all* in the storyline (because there's no logical way to make them appear), that part is completely inconsequential.

Yet they do appear everywhere else. Which in turn makes it consequential how you are portrayed in the story. Because once the story ends, you are there with everyone else. Not alone.

You continue to deny the facts and you won't change. Just give up.

[Abriael]

The story goes against simple logic. If 95% of the population are adventurers, then why is the resistance in such small numbers despite the known fact that we all play the same quests?

Why are we not recruited in large groups?

Because it's impossible to coordinate thousands of adventurers playing *exactly* the same role in the same story. Ergo, the story is played in a vacuum.

The problem is that at the moment it's a boring vacuum, and the player needs to be put more in the spotlight for the story to be more enjoyable.

Yet they do appear everywhere else. Which in turn makes it consequential how you are portrayed in the story. Because once the story ends, you are there with everyone else. Not alone.

The fact that they appear everywhere else is exactly the proof that the story is already played in a vacuum.

You continue to deny the facts and you won't change. Just give up.

As much as it'd be very convenient for you, people don't just "give up" because you tell them to.

Here's a fun tidbit: If you're in a party for the R46 Futures Perfect quest, you can have up to 3 party members. And guess what? They get depicted in the cutscene as you pursue the Garlean Centurion through Mor Dhona. That was pretty neat. Found out about it myself last night.

Those players are shown with no different role than random NPCs. You get their appearence, but their participation to the story itself (and their part in it that they played on their own "world") has no bearing on yours, because if it did it would create a serious continuity issue.

[SilvertearRen]

Yet they do appear everywhere else. Which in turn makes it consequential how you are portrayed in the story. Because once the story ends, you are there with everyone else. Not alone.

You continue to deny the facts and you won't change. Just give up.

Like I said, you and Abriael are correct to an extent. The both of you need to stop responding to each other.

[Xzen]

It would be fairly simple for them to have "special characters" that could be replaced with yours during an epic fight depending on what class you are.

[Randis]

[QUOTE=Abriael;111816]Because it's impossible to coordinate thousands of adventurers playing *exactly* the same role in the same story. Ergo, the story is played in a vacuum.

The problem is that at the moment it's a boring vacuum, and the player needs to be put more in the spotlight for the story to be more enjoyable.

If people can form a behest party or a random SP party then they should be able to team up for story quests as well.
IMO they should have a additional story line with quests for party only.

And yes, the story for the existing quests should be a lot better and a bit more challenging.
we should fight some soldiers and not beasts.
Quests like protecting a NPC from 2 low level wolfs should be forbidden.
They seriously asked me to walk from Uldah to Gridania because a messenger is trapped there, attacked by 2 wolfs... come on... i waited a couple days till i finished the quest. (it was a r30+ one)

the quests suck, periode.
Ifrit and judge are SUPER COOL, no question! Cool graphics don't make a cool story tho.

[SilvertearRen]

It would be fairly simple for them to have "special characters" that could be replaced with yours during an epic fight depending on what class you are.

That's an idea! Look at the R46 Futures Perfect combat sequence against the Garlean Legatus. We have NPC characters that are Thaumaturges, Conjurers, "rogues" (technically doesn't count as a class-specific character for now), and so on. If your character was a pugilist in that cutscene, she could take the place of Yda.

That's an interesting idea that could be conceptualized further...

-Addenum-

An example! Let's say we have a core group of NPCs that are part of the main storyline quest. They are backed by a squad of generic NPCs from each DoW and DoM class. A cutscene ensues against an epic enemy, and each and every single one of those NPCs are depicted attacking that enemy in accordance with their skills.

So let's say you went into that quest as an Archer. You'd be replacing the Archer NPC in the cutscene. You'd be depicted firing off a barrage of arrows in a stylized "Arrow Helix" move. As a Lancer? You'd replace the generic Lancer NPC. You'd be depicted jumping into the air and bringing down your lance upon the enemy.

It works! In fact, this model of cutscene approach could be applied to party-based storyline quests, too!

[Abriael]

nah if people can form a behest party or a random SP party then they should be able to team up for story quests as well.
IMO they should have a additional story line with quests for party only.

That's what public quests are, and it's very possible that part of the company gameplay will entail just that. There are many games that feature public quests on the side of single player ones.
But public quests can't support a complex storyline by themselves, as the presence of multiple people restricts a lot the storytelling possibilities.

Simply enough, any complex online storyline needs to deal with the incongruence that the same events happen to the same thousands of people. The only way to deal with that is to make the actual storyline part happen in a vacuum.