New Yoshitaka Amano CE Artwork

[Vilhem]

That box art looks familiar...

How about dis? o_o

[Rex]

I took it to be a manifestation of Hydaelyn, sort of analogous to Altana of FFXI. The key hints for me were her god(dess)ly size and aetherial glow, and of course her wings embracing a great (large) Aetheryte crystal.

Yeah, that's what I thought of. Altana.

[Yrusama]

I'm seeing you post around here more and more, I guess you should have a crash course XD

Long ago we were discussing what the hell Ifrit was talking about when he implied we had a primal. The sylph, too, mentioned something to the idea that we had one, but should not summon it. I've let it go for now, but it really does seem to imply that it's not just the Twelve we have access to.

It's possible that, much like like other primals are ancient deities from amongst the aether who latched onto a community, influencing its members and building a sort of cult, that one of these entities has taken an interest in us and, for the most part, we've been ignoring it for the Twelve.

Back then we had a lot less information, and one of the ideas was Siren. Keep in mind, this is before the Siren artwork was released, and it's a house of cards of a theory that was one of many speculations at the time.

Basically: We think we might have a primal; that primal possibly gave us the echo; when you get the echo you hear a harp melody; Siren has a harp; an NPC playing a harp plays the the song that you got when you woke to the echo; and the fact that we have the "The Echo" and are called "Woken" correlates to Siren's two main attacks, Hope Song, which silences you (silence bring cured by Echo drops/herbs and the attack itself sounding like the core idea of Answers in the first place), and Sleep.

Like I said, it's a house of cards - some of it disproven, some of it still possible but unlikely, some it it could easily be an auxiliary to the main story... but it was a pretty big open door for a few pages of GC Midlander, so it got a nod in Ferne's atomic lore bomb reply:



Flash forward, sometimes when an unlikely theory or an unanswered primal question pops up, the knee-jerk reaction is SIREN! just for fun. For instance, in the Developer's Blog entry, NSFW!?

Much like pop-culture references hidden in quest titles and dialogue, or how people keep mistaking the ridiculous (and often hysterical) plural forms of item names for typos, it has become somewhat of a running-gag that embodies how our theories, especially my theories, are often like birdshot... the bulls-eye was probably hit by one of them pellets... maybe...

I know this has never been depicted in Final Fantasy, and Square is known for twisting mythology around for the sake of gameplay (Shiva = Ice?), but aren't Sirens known for leading sailors astray, if not to their doom?

Also, there was a Siren reference in 1.0 with the Blacksmith/Armorer quests. And I still think the winged lady artwork we saw months ago is Seraph.

[Lucke]

So wait, what's the hierarchy for these people? Is it like:

Hydaelyn (Highest power)
The Twelve
Paragons
The Primals (lowest Power)

I'm gonna just say our "primal" is Hydaelyn. Only because that's what SE would do. As players, we are in some way stronger than everyone else (beastymen). Hydaelyn sees us as more than beastymen, so she uses us to protect the planet from the beastymen primals and the Empire. Empire was gonna destroy most of Eorzea (and part of Hydaelyn by proxy), so she awakens us to her presence. She gives us the power, not only to defeat the beastymen and their primals, but the Empire as well. Remember, it stresses the planet (and her) each time the primals are released, so she gives us power to stop the primals.

But then, why does Lu send us into a time warp using Thaliak? Wouldn't Hydaelyn save us? Maybe she ordered Thaliak to cast us into a time warp (or crystal stasis) to protect us. She may have been bracing for impact from Meteor and couldn't teleport us so she had Thaliak (and Lu) do it for her.

I dunno. I wanna believe we are important, more important and powerful than the beastymen. We wouldn't just have a primal, but Hydaelyn herself.

[ArkhamNative]

I wanna believe we are important, more important and powerful than the beastymen. We wouldn't just have a primal, but Hydaelyn herself.

I have reservations about the Shiva = Hydaelyn idea, too. Mostly, why would Hydaelyn's presence (as a primal) be draining on the planet, i.e. herself? There are some easy ways around that dilemma, but on the face of it, it seems odd.

Instead, I was thinking SE had left Shiva out of the primals page because they were holding back to reveal new beastmen (maybe in a distant patch). Yoshi-P mentioned dragon beastmen, but reptiles and cold seem like an odd mix, so maybe it would be another race of ice-related beastmen to pair with Shiva.

[Lucke]

I have reservations about the Shiva = Hydaelyn idea, too. Mostly, why would Hydaelyn's presence (as a primal) be draining on the planet, i.e. herself? There are some easy ways around that dilemma, but on the face of it, it seems odd.

Instead, I was thinking SE had left Shiva out of the primals page because they were holding back to reveal new beastmen (maybe in a distant patch). Yoshi-P mentioned dragon beastmen, but reptiles and cold seem like an odd mix, so maybe it would be another race of ice-related beastmen to pair with Shiva.

Shiva and Hydaelyn are 2 different people. Every time a primal is summoned, it weakens the planet. She uses us to stop the primals which keeps Hydaelyn healthy. If the Primals are made up of Aether, so must Hydaelyn. Assuming Ifrit's not an idiot and knows the other primals, when he states he can smell another primal but can't determine who, it could be Hydaelyn.

If Hydaelyn is the planet, she would be full of aether, more so than any other Primal. Ifrit may not realize he smells Hydaelyn.

course, I could be wrong and our Primal could be Bahamut for all we know lol.

[Kinseykinz]

I think its the "Mother Crystal" or Hydaelyn, and the Warriors of Light are leaving her protection after a 5 year stasis. That's how I interpreted the image anyway

Agreed.

I see the being in the artwork as a protector as well. And if she is the 'Mother Crystal'/Hydaelyn, that would make sense.

Mothers are know for being protective...but sometimes, that protection is highly violent. But I see no violence in that image, only protection. She might actually be part of the storyline that explains how we got 'ported to the future' unscathed. I see it being more likely that she is tied into the 'how we got to this point of the story/world history' than anything else atm. Of course, down the road, we might get to see the 'violent side'....who knows really.

[NoloeTazier]

So wait, what's the hierarchy for these people? Is it like:

Hydaelyn (Highest power)
The Twelve
Paragons
The Primals (lowest Power)

I'm gonna just say our "primal" is Hydaelyn. Only because that's what SE would do. As players, we are in some way stronger than everyone else (beastymen). Hydaelyn sees us as more than beastymen, so she uses us to protect the planet from the beastymen primals and the Empire. Empire was gonna destroy most of Eorzea (and part of Hydaelyn by proxy), so she awakens us to her presence. She gives us the power, not only to defeat the beastymen and their primals, but the Empire as well. Remember, it stresses the planet (and her) each time the primals are released, so she gives us power to stop the primals.

But then, why does Lu send us into a time warp using Thaliak? Wouldn't Hydaelyn save us? Maybe she ordered Thaliak to cast us into a time warp (or crystal stasis) to protect us. She may have been bracing for impact from Meteor and couldn't teleport us so she had Thaliak (and Lu) do it for her.

I dunno. I wanna believe we are important, more important and powerful than the beastymen. We wouldn't just have a primal, but Hydaelyn herself.

Hydaelyn -> Primals
The Twelve -> Archons

That's as much hierarchy I'd add to the story right now. The Primals need aether to be summoned, which they aren't summoned a lot for to be honest and the Beastmen use their hoarded Crystals/Shards for the rituals. Sure Crystals are crystalized aether but when they're summoned they aren't exactly draining the source of aether.

The Twelve are 'suppose' to be reincarnated as the Archons so essentially they're the same thing. But who knows if the Archons really are what we think they are, Urianger is pretty shady. Louisoix sends us away because that was probably Plan B. If the sealing spell failed (which it did) then those that could stop Bahamut needed to be safeguarded. Plan C is probably what happens after we're gone and continues in the rest of the End of an Era cutscene.

[Bowen]

Speaking of Archons, has it ever been made clear who each Archon is and to which of the Twelve they belong?

I'm guessing Thaliak -> Louisoix, but what of the others?

[Anonymoose]

Speaking of Archons, has it ever been made clear who each Archon is and to which of the Twelve they belong?

It's murky. I tried to line them up once but I didn't get very far. Personally, I think it's a myth woven into tradition over the ages and, while Archons may exist, they do not incarnate the Twelve so much as serve their interests, or even just serve the interests of the people who believe in them. Where some people see angels, other people see saints, and others see just extraordinary people.

Knowing what I know now, I currently believe that the Circle of Knowing are just regular people who comprehend extraordinary truths due to their study of the prophecies, and that everything else about them is legend.