On the recent letter

[Nix]

I can't like your post enough.

We need a MMO with engaging, thought provoking combat.

If the core, and beginning of a game isn't fun, what makes anyone think it will magically be fun at endgame?

Positioning, enemy abilities, environmental effects, party makeup, elemental wheel, status effects, a diverse bestiary, thoughtful action use, resource management, diversified encounters and a slew of other things should play a role in making combat enjoyable from beginning to end.

Similar monsters, tank and spank, same 2-5 skills used from 1-50. {no thanks}

(All hypothetical and needed for any game really, not just FFXIV)

I really like your post Mog!

I know people will probably slay me for saying this, but I did enjoy aspects of FFXI combat, like how technical it could be at times with positioning, stunning attacks and whatnot.
I still hate with a passion how as my RDM I was stuck on haste/refresh duty while everyone got to have fun haha, but I did enjoy the depth that fights had outside of the boring XP grind.

I hope to see more fights that require one to think on their toes (Running from cracks isn't thinking! lol ) and adapt. I didn't feel this in 1.0 at all, even the harder fights were kinda tank n' spank.

Take chimera for instance (Not saying he's hard but it's an example):
Tank stood in his spot, everyone else clustered together out of range (this is when they first implemented him and not after they toyed with him) and it was pretty much that for 5~ mins. The only real 'challenge' came from ganking those ants, but with 2 BRDs on the job it was no sweat at all.

This wasn't technical for me, this didn't have us changing our tactics depending on the enemy's actions. And some could say that XI wasn't exactly 'technical either' but it felt more involved there.

I know some are going to want to say "If you want XI go back to XI!" But I don't want XI, I just wish the fights were a little more involved. I don't need a list of 50 bajillion actions, 49 bajillion of which I'll never use because I'e outlevelled them; I don't need a red mage to follow me around to give me haste to make me feel special or a BRD to do nothing but sing marches and minuets so I can feel great about my weapon skills.
I just want something a little more involved @_@.

[PinkamenaDiane]

I really like your post Mog!

I know people will probably slay me for saying this, but I did enjoy aspects of FFXI combat, like how technical it could be at times with positioning, stunning attacks and whatnot.
I still hate with a passion how as my RDM I was stuck on haste/refresh duty while everyone got to have fun haha, but I did enjoy the depth that fights had outside of the boring XP grind.

I hope to see more fights that require one to think on their toes (Running from cracks isn't thinking! lol ) and adapt. I didn't feel this in 1.0 at all, even the harder fights were kinda tank n' spank.

Take chimera for instance (Not saying he's hard but it's an example):
Tank stood in his spot, everyone else clustered together out of range (this is when they first implemented him and not after they toyed with him) and it was pretty much that for 5~ mins. The only real 'challenge' came from ganking those ants, but with 2 BRDs on the job it was no sweat at all.

This wasn't technical for me, this didn't have us changing our tactics depending on the enemy's actions. And some could say that XI wasn't exactly 'technical either' but it felt more involved there.

I know some are going to want to say "If you want XI go back to XI!" But I don't want XI, I just wish the fights were a little more involved. I don't need a list of 50 bajillion actions, 49 bajillion of which I'll never use because I'e outlevelled them; I don't need a red mage to follow me around to give me haste to make me feel special or a BRD to do nothing but sing marches and minuets so I can feel great about my weapon skills.
I just want something a little more involved @_@.

You do realize FFXI turned into use windower and who could write the best spellcast script to automate all the gear swaps and what not.

[Nix]

You do realize FFXI turned into use windower and who could write the best spellcast script to automate all the gear swaps and what not.

Yes I do, I played it for almost 7 years.

You do realize that gear swapping has absolutely nothing to do with this topic?
You can have an involved fight and some really intricate tactics that DON'T revolve around gearswapping.

But you knew that already didn't you...?


...Didn't you...? D:

[Duelle]

Yes I do, I played it for almost 7 years.

You do realize that gear swapping has absolutely nothing to do with this topic?
You can have an involved fight and some really intricate tactics that DON'T revolve around gearswapping.

You mean like "type /kneel" to Odin? Rotating bards for soul voice and summoners for perfect defense is not intricate nor involved. Rotating DPS that slept themselves to 100 TP is also not intricate or involved. Supertanking is not intricate and involved.

I like fights with mechanics as much as the next guy (probably moreso, as I greatly enjoyed that aspect of raiding in WoW), but trust me, XI's battle system is the furthest thing from what I call exemplary combat design. Some people's judgement has been clouded by FFXI nostalgia, is all.

[Orophin]

I think SE needs to watch that video very closely.

Or Wildstar might just have half their subscriptions.

Double jump is meaningless. But the use of the dodge mechanic, and jump mechanic used to avoid enemy attacks adds a TON of emergent gameplay that FFXIV will not have.

Maybe not everyone wants fully active combat like GW2 and TERA have? If I wanted to play a game like that I'd play Street Fighter.

Thankfully SE seems to be gravitating towards old combat systems like WoW and FFXIV 1.23. (although faster paced) If they were to change how battle works that wouldn't turn me off from the game, but my preference is what they're showing now. And I don't see ARR suffering because they refuse to go in the direction of GW2/TERA/Wildstar's more active combat.

[Nix]

You mean like "type /kneel" to Odin? Rotating bards for soul voice and summoners for perfect defense is not intricate nor involved. Rotating DPS that slept themselves to 100 TP is also not intricate or involved. Supertanking is not intricate and involved.

I like fights with mechanics as much as the next guy (probably moreso, as I greatly enjoyed that aspect of raiding in WoW), but trust me, XI's battle system is the furthest thing from what I call exemplary combat design. Some people's judgement has been clouded by FFXI nostalgia, is all.

I was only using XI as an example^^ and did CLEARLY state in my post that some people would not think it is technical. Maybe you missed that?

My point was that I didn't want combat to be exactly like XI, but anything a little more involved than it was in 1.0 is a step forward.
For the most part I disliked XI's combat - I hated being pidgeonholed into one role and one role only and there was a great many things that needed to be done away with, such as the convoluted gearswapping, being able to supertank and being able to pure TP burn most stuff etc etc.

But I guess the minute one person mentions XI in this forum it automatically means they want a clone of it.

That's quite laughable.