On the recent letter

[Zenaku]

And here's where you're wrong. Press outlets and some fansites have been specifically authorized by Square Enix to talk about the beta in a preview. The NDA remains for everyone else.

So yeah, all of it is still fully under NDA until SE says it isn't, as the articles should have duly specified.

well then the people at eorzeapedia are wrong for saying that then. If a press outlet talk about something that in beta which was under NDA and then people listen to that press outlet then all that information in turn should no longer be under NDA. Because everyone can easy just listen to the press outlet and get that information.

That all i'm saying there still a lot of things under NDA but most of the thing talk by the press outlet should no longer be under NDA. I understand that you need SE to tell us otherwise so it best not to talk about it just in case you talk about something that is under NDA. But really this close to Beta3 with or without SE ok it does not really matter that much.

[Abriael]

well then the people at eorzeapedia are wrong for saying that then. If a press outlet talk about something that in beta which was under NDA and then people listen to that press outlet then all that information in turn should no longer be under NDA. Because everyone can easy just listen to the press outlet and get that information.

That all i'm saying there still a lot of things under NDA but most of the thing talk by the press outlet should no longer be under NDA. I understand that you need SE to tell us otherwise so it best not to talk about it just in case you talk about something that is under NDA. But really this close to Beta3 with or without SE ok it does not really matter that much.

Those people have been expressly authorized by Square Enix to talk about it despite the NDA (and only within the preview), as was specified by many of the outlets that posted previews. You haven't been authorized to do so, hence you shouldn't.

The NDA on the whole content of beta 1 and beta 2 (and alpha) is still fully in place, and SE was very clear about it. That's all there's to it.

[DoctorMog]

All I cared for was "we're making revisions to the battle system" cause the current one I hate with a passion, and hope it gets tweaked.

I can't like your post enough.

We need a MMO with engaging, thought provoking combat.

If the core, and beginning of a game isn't fun, what makes anyone think it will magically be fun at endgame?

Positioning, enemy abilities, environmental effects, party makeup, elemental wheel, status effects, a diverse bestiary, thoughtful action use, resource management, diversified encounters and a slew of other things should play a role in making combat enjoyable from beginning to end.

Similar monsters, tank and spank, same 2-5 skills used from 1-50. {no thanks}

(All hypothetical and needed for any game really, not just FFXIV)

[Nix]

I can't like your post enough.

We need a MMO with engaging, thought provoking combat.

If the core, and beginning of a game isn't fun, what makes anyone think it will magically be fun at endgame?

Positioning, enemy abilities, environmental effects, party makeup, elemental wheel, status effects, a diverse bestiary, thoughtful action use, resource management, diversified encounters and a slew of other things should play a role in making combat enjoyable from beginning to end.

Similar monsters, tank and spank, same 2-5 skills used from 1-50. {no thanks}

(All hypothetical and needed for any game really, not just FFXIV)

I really like your post Mog!

I know people will probably slay me for saying this, but I did enjoy aspects of FFXI combat, like how technical it could be at times with positioning, stunning attacks and whatnot.
I still hate with a passion how as my RDM I was stuck on haste/refresh duty while everyone got to have fun haha, but I did enjoy the depth that fights had outside of the boring XP grind.

I hope to see more fights that require one to think on their toes (Running from cracks isn't thinking! lol ) and adapt. I didn't feel this in 1.0 at all, even the harder fights were kinda tank n' spank.

Take chimera for instance (Not saying he's hard but it's an example):
Tank stood in his spot, everyone else clustered together out of range (this is when they first implemented him and not after they toyed with him) and it was pretty much that for 5~ mins. The only real 'challenge' came from ganking those ants, but with 2 BRDs on the job it was no sweat at all.

This wasn't technical for me, this didn't have us changing our tactics depending on the enemy's actions. And some could say that XI wasn't exactly 'technical either' but it felt more involved there.

I know some are going to want to say "If you want XI go back to XI!" But I don't want XI, I just wish the fights were a little more involved. I don't need a list of 50 bajillion actions, 49 bajillion of which I'll never use because I'e outlevelled them; I don't need a red mage to follow me around to give me haste to make me feel special or a BRD to do nothing but sing marches and minuets so I can feel great about my weapon skills.
I just want something a little more involved @_@.

[PinkamenaDiane]

I really like your post Mog!

I know people will probably slay me for saying this, but I did enjoy aspects of FFXI combat, like how technical it could be at times with positioning, stunning attacks and whatnot.
I still hate with a passion how as my RDM I was stuck on haste/refresh duty while everyone got to have fun haha, but I did enjoy the depth that fights had outside of the boring XP grind.

I hope to see more fights that require one to think on their toes (Running from cracks isn't thinking! lol ) and adapt. I didn't feel this in 1.0 at all, even the harder fights were kinda tank n' spank.

Take chimera for instance (Not saying he's hard but it's an example):
Tank stood in his spot, everyone else clustered together out of range (this is when they first implemented him and not after they toyed with him) and it was pretty much that for 5~ mins. The only real 'challenge' came from ganking those ants, but with 2 BRDs on the job it was no sweat at all.

This wasn't technical for me, this didn't have us changing our tactics depending on the enemy's actions. And some could say that XI wasn't exactly 'technical either' but it felt more involved there.

I know some are going to want to say "If you want XI go back to XI!" But I don't want XI, I just wish the fights were a little more involved. I don't need a list of 50 bajillion actions, 49 bajillion of which I'll never use because I'e outlevelled them; I don't need a red mage to follow me around to give me haste to make me feel special or a BRD to do nothing but sing marches and minuets so I can feel great about my weapon skills.
I just want something a little more involved @_@.

You do realize FFXI turned into use windower and who could write the best spellcast script to automate all the gear swaps and what not.

[Nix]

You do realize FFXI turned into use windower and who could write the best spellcast script to automate all the gear swaps and what not.

Yes I do, I played it for almost 7 years.

You do realize that gear swapping has absolutely nothing to do with this topic?
You can have an involved fight and some really intricate tactics that DON'T revolve around gearswapping.

But you knew that already didn't you...?


...Didn't you...? D:

[Duelle]

Yes I do, I played it for almost 7 years.

You do realize that gear swapping has absolutely nothing to do with this topic?
You can have an involved fight and some really intricate tactics that DON'T revolve around gearswapping.

You mean like "type /kneel" to Odin? Rotating bards for soul voice and summoners for perfect defense is not intricate nor involved. Rotating DPS that slept themselves to 100 TP is also not intricate or involved. Supertanking is not intricate and involved.

I like fights with mechanics as much as the next guy (probably moreso, as I greatly enjoyed that aspect of raiding in WoW), but trust me, XI's battle system is the furthest thing from what I call exemplary combat design. Some people's judgement has been clouded by FFXI nostalgia, is all.

[Dragonheart]

I can't like your post enough.

We need a MMO with engaging, thought provoking combat.

If the core, and beginning of a game isn't fun, what makes anyone think it will magically be fun at endgame?

Positioning, enemy abilities, environmental effects, party makeup, elemental wheel, status effects, a diverse bestiary, thoughtful action use, resource management, diversified encounters and a slew of other things should play a role in making combat enjoyable from beginning to end.

Similar monsters, tank and spank, same 2-5 skills used from 1-50. {no thanks}

(All hypothetical and needed for any game really, not just FFXIV)

This is the greatest problem..

The game atm it's static as it was in 1.0, you can just spam skill faster.. But the monsters still doesn't use skills to avoid (like eruption for example, or 100 tons swipe).

Even the greatest FATE in beta 2 (the golem) it's a mere tank & spank where all you need is a tank, 1-2 healer, and a bunch of mindless dps spamming ws just standing behind him.. 0 movement required, 0 skill required, 0 danger...

DoctorMog, what do you think about the implementation of jump as a combat mechanic ? Look at this new wildstar video for an idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=-qo5nrkYYI0

We already know that jump will not be used as a mechanic.. and it's a shame imho... It really brings much more fun and dynamic mechanics if it is well used (sorry for my english btw).

[DoctorMog]

DoctorMog, what do you think about the implementation of jump as a combat mechanic ? Look at this new wildstar video for an idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=-qo5nrkYYI0

We already know that jump will not be used as a mechanic.. and it's a shame imho... It really brings much more fun and dynamic mechanics if it is well used (sorry for my english btw).

I think SE needs to watch that video very closely.

Or Wildstar might just have half their subscriptions.

Double jump is meaningless. But the use of the dodge mechanic, and jump mechanic used to avoid enemy attacks adds a TON of emergent gameplay that FFXIV will not have.

Sprint on it's own meter in Wildstar means melee aren't at a disadvantage in pvp. (Why does sprint cost TP in FFXIV?) If it's because mages can't move when casting, then let them move...
(No NDA breaking, shown here: http://youtu.be/_N4G854ANo0?t=2m51s)

Example: Mage vs melee start fight with full TP.
Melee uses TP move on mage.
mage sprints off.
melee has no TP to sprint after mage.
Wat.

And lastly, that combat looks fun, engaging and doesn't appear to hold your hand and treat you like an idiot.

I'm liking the looks of Wildstar. I really hope SE is watching.

ARR needs to do better than the competition, not just meet it. Otherwise it will be outshined as soon as a new game comes out that steps the genre one step further.
(yeah, that needs to be bold)

[Dragonheart]

I think SE needs to watch that video very closely.

Or Wildstar might just have half their subscriptions.

Double jump is meaningless. But the use of the dodge mechanic, and jump mechanic used to avoid enemy attacks adds a TON of emergent gameplay that FFXIV will not have.

Sprint on it's own meter in Wildstar means melee aren't at a disadvantage in pvp. (Why does sprint cost TP in FFXIV?) If it's because mages can't move when casting, then let them move...
(No NDA breaking, shown here: http://youtu.be/_N4G854ANo0?t=2m51s)

Example: Mage vs melee start fight with full TP.
Melee uses TP move on mage.
mage sprints off.
melee has no TP to sprint after mage.
Wat.

And lastly, that combat looks fun, engaging and doesn't appear to hold your hand and treat you like an idiot.

I'm liking the looks of Wildstar. I really hope SE is watching.

ARR needs to do better than the competition, not just meet it. Otherwise it will be outshined as soon as a new game comes out that steps the genre one step further.
(yeah, that needs to be bold)

Thanks for your opinion, that is what i think too.

ARR it's a 2013 game, with old style mechanics (i hope that it will reach at least the WoW encounters speaking of mechanics depth.. it will be already a BIG goal) ... Anyway compared to the new games, it feels old without any doubt. Almost every new game it's more player skill based than gear based (look at GW2) .

Last OT on Wildstar, i'm really looking forward it, it's made by big team where 15-20 members are ex blizzard (till TBC),
also it will be an hardcore game as the devs recently stated. They want to make hard raids where ppl will wipes a lot, class trinity still present (not like GW2..) etc etc.