6months and no AH?!

[Wolfie]

I still don't know why everyone is defending the retainer system.

Everything the devs will do with this system to make it more user friendly or intuitive will turn out to be extremely roundabout or awkward, because the base design of "NPCs selling your stuff in a separate zone like bazaars" is a bad design. There is nothing that this system does, that a system without retainers couldn't do better, easier, and for cheaper in terms of development costs.

Just because you can work with a system doesn't mean it's a GOOD one. SE pretty much spent extra effort to make a system that's WORSE than systems already available on other MMOs (including their own).

[AngryNixon]

I still don't know why everyone is defending the retainer system.

Everything the devs will do with this system to make it more user friendly or intuitive will turn out to be extremely roundabout or awkward, because the base design of "NPCs selling your stuff in a separate zone like bazaars" is a bad design. There is nothing that this system does, that a system without retainers couldn't do better, easier, and for cheaper in terms of development costs.

Just because you can work with a system doesn't mean it's a GOOD one. SE pretty much spent extra effort to make a system that's WORSE than systems already available on other MMOs (including their own).

Ok let me see if I can summarize the main complaints against AHs. If I miss any let me know.

1) An AH will have price histories and price histories will bring about the robot unicorn apocalypse.

2) The system we have now is PERFECT because we can now search for items, and any argument to the contrary automatically implies you are lazy.

3) AHs, because they are so simple and efficient, allow RMTs to thrive because when RMTs are confronted with a retainer ward (seeing as they aren't as intelligent as the next 10 year old that can figure out an MMO market system) they burst into flames of confusion, since they cannot possibly find out how to effectively thrive in a market ward system, and are forced back to the nether-dimension they came from.

4) AHs hurt my immersion? a.k.a. alienating me from my fantasy land with the horrors of quick, straightforward, efficient, informative and competitive global commerce. I don't know if that's even a real one but I figured it might be on Besaid.

5) Hmmm... ran out. Any other perfectly valid suggestions as to why the AH is the devil himself reincarnated as a fuzzy bunny reincarnated as a post office box ?

[GreyWolf]

Ok let me see if I can summarize the main complaints against AHs. If I miss any let me know.

1) An AH will have price histories and price histories will bring about the robot unicorn apocalypse.

2) The system we have now is PERFECT because we can now search for items, and any argument to the contrary automatically implies you are lazy.

3) AHs, because they are so simple and efficient, allow RMTs to thrive because when RMTs are confronted with a retainer ward (seeing as they aren't as intelligent as the next 10 year old that can figure out an MMO market system) they burst into flames of confusion, since they cannot possibly find out how to effectively thrive in a market ward system, and are forced back to the nether-dimension they came from.

4) AHs hurt my immersion? a.k.a. alienating me from my fantasy land with the horrors of quick, straightforward, efficient, informative and competitive global commerce. I don't know if that's even a real one but I figured it might be on Besaid.

5) Hmmm... ran out. Any other perfectly valid suggestions as to why the AH is the devil himself reincarnated as a fuzzy bunny reincarnated as a post office box ?

I'd have to say these 5 points are arguable and hardly valid,

1 Price histories does not determine what an item is going for, that's determined by anyone who wants to sell. perhaps you should do some research on economics/supply and demand. Like the price others are selling for? buy the item. Don't like the price others are selling for? don't buy it at the price. it's easy. if you don't want to spend the gil go farm yourself you like to be immersed right?

2 System is not perfect, if it was perfect not so many people would have complained/left the game for it. not to mention all the crashes >.>; I think the system is getting overloaded with too many retainers and processes having to deal with each and every retainer/player/item. This game was also meant for the "Casual" player who doesn't have time to go run around looking for stuff remember?

3 You'll have RMT no matter what system... you just don't notice it as much in this system yet because there's a lack of people playing to make any real profit, not to mention there's just so much gil you can get just from doing the guildleves. No players no RMT >.>;

4 as far as your immersion goes that's just your opinion and how it affects you... but not others. others may feel differently and if you didn't notice there were many who complained which meant that it affected them enough... and as you can see a lack of population its also affecting the game, i'm sure they left for other reasons too but i'm sure many left for this one. but hey if it works for you i'm happy for you. sure it puts in a bit of realism as far as real shopping and deal hunting but keep in mind we are here to roleplay and play in a fantasy world... >.>; if I wanted the frustation, didn't feel like being lazy and had all the time in the world to shop then this would be ok. Not everyone has the extra time they want to spend running around.

5 if SE wants this game to succeed they will have to put in some sort of one counter market system, not retainers. it doesn't have to be an Auction house, just a trading post withouth having to search for retainers, load retainers, and other time consuming issues. SE has already lost a lot of players they really can't afford to lose any more. They've already delayed other games and resources. Try to come up with a more valid reason eh.

I don't think the main reason people left this game due to the the market system but I bet it was one of the top reasons.

[LazyKz]

The market ward is pretty much the same thing as an AH, but with functions that prevent/slow the process of RMT. It's actually new and refreshing compared to the copy&paste AH we see in every single MMORPG. People complain because they have to walk to the retainer selling the item, but that's just being lazy. People seem to think that just because the system had a rough start out it's all the sudden a "failed feature, or not fixable" yet that's obviously NOT the case. Look at how far the system has gone, and look at how many less people talk about this subject. Keep in mind, that the original market ward system, was not a finished product, and even now still has room for improvement. Regardless, the MW's are better and more interesting.

Don't forget... we ARE playing a video game. Unless I'm waaaaaay out of the loop, we didn't get motion controls with FFXIV. I don't see how adding ease-of-play to a "sit still for hours - do nothing" game is lazy. And it seems that the other MMORPGs are doing a little better than this game. Majority wins IMO.

There are some things about the retainer system that I do enjoy and hope that they never get rid of them. The trouble I have is when I'm sitting on 50+ items that I want to circulate into the economy... it just takes way too long to look everything up for what it's selling for. There also seems to be a little too much redundancy in the MWs (also the game, but thats on other threads) that really dosn't have to be.

[Martyr]

4) AHs hurt my immersion? a.k.a. alienating me from my fantasy land with the horrors of quick, straightforward, efficient, informative and competitive global commerce. I don't know if that's even a real one but I figured it might be on Besaid.

Just have to say, as a proud member of an RP linkshell on Besaid, having an AH wouldn't hurt my immersion in the least. Quicker buying/selling means more time to actually do what the hell I want to do. Everything related to crafting and the markets already takes entirely too much time that I could be spending elsewhere doing something enjoyable. What *does* hurt my immersion is rummaging through mountains of lifeless (well, mostly lifeless after the creepy shuffling zombie patch) bodies standing for hours on end searching for the one character with a giant blazing star over their head.

I must say, the only thing I like about the wards at the moment is being able to actually see certain items on other characters before you purchase them. Then again, an item preview of sorts would remedy that.

In all honesty, though, I've learned to put up with the wards, but that's also because I've never really had anything better. I never played FFXI, so I'm not sure what their AH is like, but I can't see how it could be worse.

[AngryNixon]

Just have to say, as a proud member of an RP linkshell on Besaid, having an AH wouldn't hurt my immersion in the least. Quicker buying/selling means more time to actually do what the hell I want to do. Everything related to crafting and the markets already takes entirely too much time that I could be spending elsewhere doing something enjoyable. What *does* hurt my immersion is rummaging through mountains of lifeless (well, mostly lifeless after the creepy shuffling zombie patch) bodies standing for hours on end searching for the one character with a giant blazing star over their head.

I must say, the only thing I like about the wards at the moment is being able to actually see certain items on other characters before you purchase them. Then again, an item preview of sorts would remedy that.

In all honesty, though, I've learned to put up with the wards, but that's also because I've never really had anything better. I never played FFXI, so I'm not sure what their AH is like, but I can't see how it could be worse.

lol, wow Martyr. Thanks. That was the most positive rational thing I've read in over a month. It's nice to know someone who RPs doesn't even like it. I've heard a lot of garbage about this MW being some fantastical experience enhancing thing that adds to the realism of commerce in the game... Nice to know some people disagree.