Seriously 3-5 minute repop on NMs?

[CrystalWeapon]

Aiming for compromise is dumb. Nobody has stated why 3-5mins is "too short". Except "its too short" and perhaps "too extreme change from XI", to which I reply, who cares? If there is no proper argument for the cooldown it should not be changed in any way. "I can't deal with this massive of a change without getting a seizure" is not a proper argument.

I'm a FFXI vet, and I can tell you first hand that a good portion (but not all) of the players are masochists. They complain about everything. It's like if you were locked up in a cave your entire life, and you suddenly find a way to get out. You see the sunlight, then complain it's too bright, and you want to go back in. They are very very very afraid of change :P

Like it or not SE is not going back to the old staple of having 3~24 hour nm pops. If you haven't been paying attention to XI lately the NM's outside of abyssea are about to have pop time reductions all around. Even the land kings are going to see a massive redux. As I said before Notorious Monsters should be notorious because of their difficulty to kill, not notorious because of their timmers. Spawn time =/= difficulty, it just means exclusion of people with windowed playtimes. If you're worried about everyone wearing the same gear as you, it's going to happen if the gear is good enough. For those saying they don't want to see everyone going around with the awesome gear, even if the spawn timmer was 6 hours and it had a horrid droprate; you'd only get to lord that special gear around for a few months before you'd start seeing a lot of other people trotting around with it.

This is XIV. This is not XI, and this is not WoW. The dev team knows what they're doing, so have a little patience. If you don't find this content enjoyable, then wait till they add the endgame stuff (which probably won't be for a while since it's still F2P and the battle system is being reworked). I've gotten maat's cap before abyssea, I've done limbus, I've done sky, I've done dynamis, I've done abyssea, I've tagged along for HNMs, I've done salvage, etc... I have hardcored in xi big time. I like XIV's change of pace from XI. I think the dev team knows what they're doing, and I think by summer it's going to make a big turnaround.

[SilvertearRen]

No. I didn't. I obviously talked about "Some", and it's rather obvious that some people around here are quite clearly giving the timesink aspect of old-style nm hunting a higher priority than any kind of challenge.

Engineered timesinks are retarded. It adds no challenge whatsoever to a game. Period.

It's a game mechanic that no longer adds substance to a game, instead taking away from the game. The point a hardcore player should always go for is the level of challenge.

Let's say we have a NM that takes only a specific type of damage, be it piercing or elemental. The average hardcore player won't know that, and he waltzes up and starts beatin' on that NM.

"WTF? Y NO DMG?"

While those who are smart enough to actually analyze the monster would figure out the answer and promptly drub the pissant.

[Clydey]

I'm a FFXI vet, and I can tell you first hand that a good portion (but not all) of the players are masochists. They complain about everything. It's like if you were locked up in a cave your entire life, and you suddenly find a way to get out. You see the sunlight, then complain it's too bright, and you want to go back in. They are very very very afraid of change :P

Like it or not SE is not going back to the old staple of having 3~24 hour nm pops. If you haven't been paying attention to XI lately the NM's outside of abyssea are about to have pop time reductions all around. Even the land kings are going to see a massive redux. As I said before Notorious Monsters should be notorious because of their difficulty to kill, not notorious because of their timmers. Spawn time =/= difficulty, it just means exclusion of people with windowed playtimes. If you're worried about everyone wearing the same gear as you, it's going to happen if the gear is good enough. For those saying they don't want to see everyone going around with the awesome gear, even if the spawn timmer was 6 hours and it had a horrid droprate; you'd only get to lord that special gear around for a few months before you'd start seeing a lot of other people trotting around with it.

This is XIV. This is not XI, and this is not WoW. The dev team knows what they're doing, so have a little patience. If you don't find this content enjoyable, then wait till they add the endgame stuff (which probably won't be for a while since it's still F2P and the battle system is being reworked). I've gotten maat's cap before abyssea, I've done limbus, I've done sky, I've done dynamis, I've done abyssea, I've tagged along for HNMs, I've done salvage, etc... I have hardcored in xi big time. I like XIV's change of pace from XI. I think the dev team knows what they're doing, and I think by summer it's going to make a big turnaround.

Once again, we need to make a distinction. Are we talking about repop timers or pop windows? I have a feeling that a lot of people are getting their wires crossed.

[Abriael]

Once again, we need to make a distinction. Are we talking about repop timers or pop windows? I have a feeling that a lot of people are getting their wires crossed.

The effect is pretty much similar. With pop windows you can go do other stuff in the meanwhile (still sinking a lot of time in traveling) or go afk (which is what most do, but it's silly to setup a game so that it can be enjoyed only once every X hours), but you make the pop much more predictable, which means that it will be even more overcamped turning it into an equally bad timesink.

[Sorel]

So if we get Jormy/Tiamat style NMs, you want them to pop every 2 hours? Now, that is something I am definitely against. The whole point of those fights was that they were epic. Making them pop every 2 hours would defeat the purpose entirely.

Well I guess it depends on how one defines an "epic" fight. Personally, I take an epic fight to mean that the actual combat was epic. I personally don't believe epic is the correct adjective to describe waiting over 3 hours to fight a particular enemy. That is unless I am fighting through minions for 3 hours to get to the NM boss. That would be truly epic. But just waiting for a game timer ... not so much, methinks.

[Clydey]

The effect is pretty much similar. With pop windows you can go do other stuff in the meanwhile (still sinking a lot of time in traveling) or go afk (which is what most do, but it's silly to setup a game so that it can be enjoyed only once every X hours), but you make the pop much more predictable, which means that it will be even more overcamped turning it into an equally bad timesink.

I don't see a problem with long repops so long as the windows aren't excessive. But really, Jormy-like HNMs should not be popping every 2 hours. That would be a horrible decision, as I see it.

[Abriael]

Well I guess it depends on how one defines an "epic" fight. Personally, I take an epic fight to mean that the actual combat was epic. I personally don't believe epic is the correct adjective to describe waiting over 3 hours to fight a particular enemy. That is unless I am fighting through minions for 3 hours to get to the NM boss. That would be truly epic. But just waiting for a game timer ... not so much, methinks.

Exactly. There's *NOTHING* epic in waiting and yawning. What is (or can be) epic is the fighting itself. If a fight is not epic, the problem is in the battle, not in the lack of timewasting before it.

I don't see a problem with long repops so long as the windows aren't excessive. But really, Jormy-like HNMs should not be popping every 2 hours. That would be a horrible decision, as I see it.

There's no reason for them not to. To make a fight epic, you *actually make the fight epic* (IE: make the encounter challenging, well balanced, with a cliffhanger of phases and so forth). You don't make getting to it more boring and it's spawn overcamped.

There's really nothing epic in an army of goons standing in a spot, then some of the goons get to fight, while the others stand behind and watch.

[Sorel]

I don't see a problem with long repops so long as the windows aren't excessive. But really, Jormy-like HNMs should not be popping every 2 hours. That would be a horrible decision, as I see it.

But why would it be a horrible decision? What is the value that you see being lost by making HNMs respawn every 2 hours? No sarcasm. I'm honestly asking for your thoughts on this.

[Betelgeuzah]

I don't see a problem with long repops so long as the windows aren't excessive. But really, Jormy-like HNMs should not be popping every 2 hours. That would be a horrible decision, as I see it.

Come on. Everyone keeps saying "they should not be popping so fast", but nobody is giving any reason why this is such a sacrilege. Even in XI the wyrms could have been up for days before they were killed at best. What's the damn difference? It doesn't take away from the monster's epicness due to it's immense strength and size, not it's rarity. It is an inspiration for the lower level people "someday I will be fighting her too!"

[Clydey]

Well I guess it depends on how one defines an "epic" fight. Personally, I take an epic fight to mean that the actual combat was epic. I personally don't believe epic is the correct adjective to describe waiting over 3 hours to fight a particular enemy. That is unless I am fighting through minions for 3 hours to get to the NM boss. That would be truly epic. But just waiting for a game timer ... not so much, methinks.

It's all part of the appeal. No one is wrong here. It's about personal preference.

If you can fight Jorm every 2 hours, that fight would soon cease to become special. At least in my opinion. I don't want those epic fights, however you want to define it, to become the norm. I want them to occur rarely, thus enhancing the experience.