Seriously 3-5 minute repop on NMs?

[Lilith]

I'm having a lot of fun camping these with some friends, or with random strangers. Teaming up and getting everyones drop, there is plenty of teamplay around now! The items are nice and the respawn time keeps things active.
I'm looking forward to some real challenge too tho! (And a new r50 Bow!!!!!!!)

[Peregrine]

OK. I think I finally understand where Visch is coming from in his argument. It's not so much the NM combat or the waiting for the combat, it's the rarity and inherent value of the spoils from that combat.

In that case, I think we are trying to have one argument over two closely related, but different things.

• NM Item Drops (Equipment Issue)
• NM Combat Access (Content Issue)

One is about how often you get to participate in NM combat. The other is about how rare the spoils from NM combats are.

Some players are arguing that the respawn time should be relatively short to allow for everyone to be able to participate in NM "content". The drops are a secondary motivator for fighting the NM.

Some players are arguing to increase the respawn time in order to statistically make the drops less available to players and thus increase their rarity and value. The actual combat is a secondary motivator for fighting the NM.

To reiterate, I do believe that 3-5 minutes is too short. But I also believe 3 hours is too long, in my opinion.

However the case, I do believe I am beginning to understand some of the arguments being made.

Doesn't fool me for a second. Visch only wants gear rare for everyone but his playstyle so he can roll around town in the best gear 2 weeks after the expansion and have everyone else lament that they don't even have gear from the last expansion.

He doesn't *actually* want it to be rare gear. He wants it to be rare to *your kind*.

Get RID of these players once and for all. Challenging, accessable content. End. Success. Players like Visch never change. They want challenge, but more than that they want non-accessable. Makes them feel SPECIAL.

And the game quality suffers for listening to them.

[Abriael]

I'm having a lot of fun camping these with some friends, or with random strangers. Teaming up and getting everyones drop, there is plenty of teamplay around now! The items are nice and the respawn time keeps things active.
I'm looking forward to so real challenge too tho! (And a new r50 Bow!!!!!!!)

Exactly. Shorter spawn times encourage teaming up with other people, even strangers -> Good.
Long spawn times encourage hating and foaming at the mouth on anyone that happens to be in sight as you wait for a pop -> Bad.

[Sorel]

Nobody has stated why 3-5mins is "too short". Except "its too short" and perhaps "too extreme change from XI", to which I reply, who cares? If there is no proper argument for the cooldown it should not be changed in any way. "I can't deal with this massive of a change without getting a seizure" is not a proper argument.

Fair enough. There is no practical difference between a 5-minute respawn and a 10-minute respawn, except an additional 5 minute wait.

But there is something to be said for having "some" wait in between spawns. Like I said before, it is mostly psychological, but I still see some value in it.

It's when the wait makes participating in the content completely impractical (e.g. staying up until 1am for a 5-hour respawn because you decide to tuck you kids into bed at 8pm). That's not only not necessary, but also discouraging for players.

[Enma]

At this time I think that the choose of a very short repop-time is right. I would not be happy to "fight" to take down a NM that drops mid-equip, moreover rare-ex.

[Abriael]

But there is something to be said for having "some" wait in between spawns. Like I said before, it is mostly psychological, but I still see some value in it.

The longer the spawn rate, the less teamwork is encouraged, as people decide it's better to solo to have a higher chance at the drop if they get it, than to work with others and sharing the loot.

The 5 minutes spawn is the sweet spot that ensures that a bigger group will make the mob spawn more times (getting more chances at dropping the item), instead of taking more than 5 minutes soloing or with a small group, and making the mob skip every other spawn.

[Clydey]

I guess it all depends on what you definitions as low-rank, med-rank, and high-rank.

Currently, the highest rank is 50. Adding a ten-rank spread, that makes high-rank = 40-50. Working backwards, mid-rank is 25. Adding a ten-rank spread with 25 as the midpoint makes mid-rank = 20-30. Low-rank would be anything below 20.

This is all just my opinion, though. Others may have different definitions in there mind of what it means to be high & low rank. However the case, it will be difficult to have a discussion if we don't know what each of us means when we use certain terms.

In any case, I think 2 hours should be the absolute maximum respawn time for the highest rank NMs. Any longer than that, you make those NMs practically inaccessible to any player that works 9-5 and has children ... no matter their rank.

So if we get Jormy/Tiamat style NMs, you want them to pop every 2 hours? Now, that is something I am definitely against. The whole point of those fights was that they were epic. Making them pop every 2 hours would defeat the purpose entirely.

[Clydey]

When you say "try" do you mean "wait"? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm actually honestly asking. I just want to know.

I'm my opinion, NMs are more about the "challenging fight". If your party wins that fight they get the spoils.

I guess one could argue that the spoils become more psychologically valuable if you had to wait an excessive period of time before you had a chance to fight and get those spoils. Personally, "waiting" seems a more illusionary achievement than actually defeating the NM. But that's just me.

Let's make a distinction here. Are we talking about repop timer or a pop window? I can handle a smaller window so long as the repop timer is not short.

[Betelgeuzah]

Hell, 5 minutes is enough to get out of the way before the NM pops again. Any longer is not necessary, any shorter is not practical.

NM rewards are the last kind of rewards that need to be made rare. Leave that kind of reward up to content that can not be bottlenecked. This is casual, lighthearted content and you better start thinking it like that, because XI is not coming back no matter how much you want it to.

[Zkieve]

seeing how much discussion this have brought i would remove any worthy/high level/rare gear from world nms.
Would put it instead on dungeons,with tier succession of some kind.