Necromancer: Discussion of the dead

[Powercow]

Yes this is true i did miss that. But i never said they should come before other classes only that i hope they can make it. Other RPGs did use it just god forbid my favorite RPG series ever added it.

Ps Hell i want them to add Judge as a dual wielding sword, Enfeebling Tank job.That would be new and awesome

Well if we had a lot more classes (like FFXI) I'd be OK with adding in something like Necromancer. As it stands there's just too many missing iconic classes and too many interesting ideas to add in something that's redundant.

I'm not just picking on you or even the idea of Necromancers. This sort of thing is also what bugs me about people who want Corsair, a ranged DPS/buff class. I mean, we already have one. It's called BARD. It's also why Dark Knight, as people want it, seems redundant. A heavy plate class that uses a 2H weapon to land slow but powerful hits... like a Warrior, BUT WITH THE POISON SPELL! Heck even Thief, a positioning-oriented light melee class is taken up by Monks (and Dragoons, in a way) thanks to the combo system requiring you to be conscious about positioning. The only advantage Thief would actually have over Necromancer is that Thieves have played a HUGE role in the Final Fantasy series compared to Necromancers who have had really small cameos.
This is why I keep bringing up Mathematician (and I keep calling him that instead of Calculator because that's the name used in the survey a while back) as a good possible addition -- a positioning, distance-conscious DPS caster with odd geometric shapes for AOE? That would be badass.

[KoujiGeki]

Really? then what does this official release imply?

Ok i didnt see that.But what if they only get a few Debuffs and not all of them, like they spill the Elemental wheel? Not saying that they wont get all of them but there could always be the chance that SE pulls that stuff again.

[KoujiGeki]

ok then once Summoner is released i can make a clearer choice of what Necro can have that summoner might not get.

[Duuude007]

Now the debate is getting back to the difference between what pre 1.18 cnj and pre 1.18 thm was. For me to answer your dilemma, we must ask ourselves why SE split skills like they did in the prep of BLM and WHM... and ultimately, whether a 4th caster class is really filling a void, or struggling to be relevant in an already satisfied branch of disciplines.

Perhaps there is still a niche for it to hold, but I sincerely doubt this is the ideal one.

[KoujiGeki]

Now the debate is getting back to the difference between what pre 1.18 cnj and pre 1.18 thm was. For me to answer your dilemma, we must ask ourselves why SE split skills like they did in the prep of BLM and WHM... and ultimately, whether a 4th caster class is really filling a void, or struggling to be relevant in an already satisfied branch of disciplines.

Perhaps there is still a niche for it to hold, but I sincerely doubt this is the ideal one.

IMO most new jobs will most fall into that list. Why pick a Drk over a Drg?

[Powercow]

To name a few cool necro abilities from Final Fantasy V, they have unique spells like Meltdown, Doomsday, and other abilities like Dark Flare.

Meltdown is a spell from FF6 and FF8. Doomsday is a black magic spell from FF9, and Dark Flare is just Flare that does dark elemental damage (and is more of a blue magic thing, since it's a skill that's been changed to a different form for one's own use). These are not necromancer abilities, these are DPS mage abilities, which would make them more of a Black Mage's turf than a Necromancer's.

The coolest thing of all is that there will finally be a job that can charm something other than animals like a BST, or summon forth primals like a SMN. This form of pet job will finally be unlocked. In other words, we'll finally have every available pet job in FFXIV.

I could go on about the booger monster or a simple mind-control guy with how FFXIV still wouldn't have all the pet classes, but that would just be mean. I will say this though: adding a class just so we can finish off the collection in the same way you might want a stamp to finish off your stamp collection is a very weak excuse for adding something.

edit - And I should point out before someone else gets it wrong: Necromancers were not in FFV. They were in FFV Advance, which came out in 2006, 6 years after FFIX did.

[Duuude007]

IMO most new jobs will most fall into that list. Why pick a Drk over a Drg?

I agree. Thats exactly why caution and balance needs to be in play when considering new additions.

One niche I see is for DoL, for a class capable of scavenging animals for crafting material. "Shepherd" has been thrown about many times, but we know too little to have a solid class design. Personally I prefer the names Scavenger or Skinner over that.

[KoujiGeki]

I agree. Thats exactly why caution and balance needs to be in play when considering new additions.

One niche I see is for DoL, for a class capable of scavenging animals for crafting material. "Shepherd" has been thrown about many times, but we know too little to have a solid class design.

I mean like i said before, they can give it the abilities they took away like shaodwsear and make that the 15 min, Scourge, and drain which are key magic for it.

[Andrien]

Meltdown is a spell from FF6 and FF8. Doomsday is a black magic spell from FF9, and Dark Flare is just Flare that does dark elemental damage (and is more of a blue magic thing, since it's a skill that's been changed to a different form for one's own use). These are not necromancer abilities, these are DPS mage abilities, which would make them more of a Black Mage's turf than a Necromancer's.

I could go on about the booger monster or a simple mind-control guy with how FFXIV still wouldn't have all the pet classes, but that would just be mean. I will say this though: adding a class just so we can finish off the collection in the same way you might want a stamp to finish off your stamp collection is a very weak excuse for adding something.

Do research before coming to a debate. I specially said FFV because those abilities belonged to Necromancer, even though that game also has BLM and the rest. [edit] FF8 and FF9 didn't really have a job system.

Your second statement. You're not just saying, you're down playing. Your excuse is far more weaker than you think. There is absolutely nothing in your second statement that could be considered valid.

[Powercow]

Do research before coming to a debate. I specially said FFV because those abilities belonged to Necromancer, even though that game also has BLM and the rest.

Right, and those abilities could have simply been added to BLM and not hurt the game at all. They're not Necromancer abilities like you put it, they're black mage abilities that have been added to the necromancer class because they needed skills not already in the game to fill out that job.

Your second statement. You're not just saying, you're down playing. Your excuse is far more weaker than you think. There is absolutely nothing in your second statement that could be considered valid.

The reason you gave to add in Necromancer was so that it would complete the set. Classes aren't Pokemon cards, they should not be added in just so an arbitrary set of rules can be met. There are a LOT more pet class options than beast master, summoner, and necromancer. There's mind control and enslavement, there's morphing objects, crafting slaves, there's spirit-splitting for you or your enemy... the list goes on. Even if we added in Necromancer, it would not complete the set, not even close. Considering that one of your arguments about why Necromancer would be a good class is that it would complete this set, this is a fallacious argument.