Pipe Dreams: Expanding the healer pool

[Dzian]

Actually...

Monk should be the best DPS when it comes to fighting with bare hand/fists, claws, and gauntlets. Capable of doing as much damage unrmed as someone who has a sword.

Dragoon has it's own set of abilities that are Dragoon specific, also it should be the best damage dealer when it comes to using lances.

Yep, sounds logic to me. (shrug) Anyway, your post has a moot point because Monsa and Dragoons are not tailored specifically just to do DPS. I'm talking about what their specific talents are geared for. WHM is a healer. Monk is best at unarmed brawling. Dragoon should have it's lancer and dragoon abilities better than anyone. I'm not trying to be rude, but it's really not that hard. lol

But how is that different from saying something like...

WHM should be the best healer when it comes to Cures
Chemist (or something) should be the best healer when it comes to potions
polkadotmage should be the best healer when it comes to regens

overall they could be as equal as healers as monks and drgs are equal to dps

It's really no different to you saying monks are the best dps when it come to punching something in the face. but drg are the best dps when it comes to poking things with a lance.

What you are doing is confusing jobs and roles.
WHM could very well be the best job at throwing potent cures, but that doesnt make it the best healer.
MNK could be the best job at throwing punches and kicks. but that doesnt make it the best dps.

[SkyeWindbinder]

I believe you missed his point completely. Monk and Lancer are both melee dps. They are both be good at melee dps. Their skills are named differently, look different, they wear different armor, and their combos are different, but in the end they hit the enemy with their melee weapons and do melee damage. New melee class/job will be the exact same thing.

There should be single class or job that is the best at a given role. If they are going to do it with the melee, they need to do it with the tanks, healers, and m/rdps. Its terrible MMO design otherwise.

I believe it's my point that was entirely missed, actually.

You see, monk and lancer are both given different ways they can do damage best. That's how they are specialized in their own way. Yes, they both do DPS, I mean, duh, that goes without saying. But their specialty is how they do their DPS. A WHM's specialty is how well it can heal. It is, by far, the best healer in FFXIV. The reason being that, unlike the other classes, it was born, bred, and tailored for healing. Which is why it would not really make sense for another class to be able to heal as well as a WHM. In fact, it would actually be phenomenally stupid for another class to be able to, unless they too are bred for healing as WHM is (like a cleric or priest or something like that).

[SkyeWindbinder]

What you are doing is confusing jobs and roles.
WHM could very well be the best job at throwing potent cures, but that doesnt make it the best healer.
MNK could be the best job at throwing punches and kicks. but that doesnt make it the best dps.

Please see my post above, lol.

[Mychael]

But how is that different from saying something like...

WHM should be the best healer when it comes to Cures
Chemist (or something) should be the best healer when it comes to potions
polkadotmage should be the best healer when it comes to regens

overall they could be as equal as healers as monks and drgs are equal to dps

It's really no different to you saying monks are the best dps when it come to punching something in the face. but drg are the best dps when it comes to poking things with a lance.

What you are doing is confusing jobs and roles.
WHM could very well be the best job at throwing potent cures, but that doesnt make it the best healer.
MNK could be the best job at throwing punches and kicks. but that doesnt make it the best dps.

Because mobs have many kind of defenses.

Players have only one kind of HP to heal.

[Dzian]

Ok to rephrase.
A monks specialty is hand to hand Combat. its role is dps
A Dragoons Specialty is Polearms. its role is dps.

dps is not a monks speciality. the way it does that dps is.
dps is not a dragoons specialty. the way it does that dps is.

So....What is a white mages specialty?

The correct answer is curative magic. its roll is healing. healing is not a whitemages specialty. curative magic is.

a chemists specialty could be potions or medicines. its role could be healing.

curative magic is to healing what hand to hand combat is to dps. just one way in which to perform a role.

I really dont think i can put it any simpler than that.

Players have only one kind of HP to heal.

Players also have only one kind of HP to deplete. I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. HP is HP.

I think what you were trying to say is there's only one way to recover HP but again that would be wrong. there would be magical ways medicinal ways such as potions. job ability ways such as blood bath and second wind.

To throw mmo terminology and lingo aside for a moment. A white mages job in a party is to restore the partys HP. it does that using magic. but magic is not the only way in which any player can restore HP

[IndigoDarkwolf]

Because mobs have many kind of defenses.

Players have only one kind of HP to heal.

Your implication is that there's no difference between a caster-healer, flash-healer, HoT-healer, or ammo-based healer. It's all the same. All completely the same...

Edit: Also, single-target vs. targeted AoE vs. auras vs. smart heals...

[Reika]

I believe it's my point that was entirely missed, actually.

You see, monk and lancer are both given different ways they can do damage best. That's how they are specialized in their own way. Yes, they both do DPS, I mean, duh, that goes without saying. But their specialty is how they do their DPS. A WHM's specialty is how well it can heal. It is, by far, the best healer in FFXIV. The reason being that, unlike the other classes, it was born, bred, and tailored for healing. Which is why it would not really make sense for another class to be able to heal as well as a WHM. In fact, it would actually be phenomenally stupid for another class to be able to, unless they too are bred for healing as WHM is (like a cleric or priest or something like that).

WHM is currently the only healer in FFXIV, of course its currently the best. But when the time comes that they add more classes and jobs that are healers, it should not be the best.

[Mychael]

Your implication is that there's no difference between a caster-healer, flash-healer, HoT-healer, or ammo-based healer. It's all the same. All completely the same...

Edit: Also, single-target vs. targeted AoE vs. auras vs. smart heals...

2. So many people want a HoT-focused job. To me, this is them asking for a job where they can main heal without actually paying attention. Harsh? Yep. But it's the truth. "Healing over time" spells should NOT be a job's main focus on healing (even besides being unable to recover from spike damage). The amount healed over what amount of time is really a ratio that should be kept in check over all healing jobs. If a job that only has healing-over-time spells is able to keep up with a job that only has "instant" heals (i.e. Cure), then they have accomplished what I said earlier, being able to heal just as well without pressing as many buttons. In my opinion, healing over time spells should be a utility available to all healers, and should never make up a class entirely.

3. As an expansion of my second point, so many people are suggesting classes that specialize in one nook of a healer, i.e. group heals vs. single-target heals; slow, high heals vs. fast, low heals; etc. You're welcome to disagree, but I view all of these as integral parts of a good healing job. If you don't have all of them, you're missing something. In a large group, you can always have one of each specialized healer, but for normal content you only have one healer--not 5, as with DPS.

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[IndigoDarkwolf]

so many people are suggesting classes that specialize in one nook of a healer, i.e. group heals vs. single-target heals; slow, high heals vs. fast, low heals; etc. You're welcome to disagree, but I view all of these as integral parts of a good healing job. If you don't have all of them, you're missing something. In a large group, you can always have one of each specialized healer, but for normal content you only have one healer--not 5, as with DPS.

This argument is just a re-hash of "WHM should be onry healer because I say so".

1. I never said a new healer shouldn't have a diverse array of healing powers.
2. The new, larger, 24-character content will almost certainly require multiple healers.
3. I would observe that the WHM already is a specialized healer, casting single-target heals and casting targeted AoE damage mitigation. (There might have been a small AoE on its heals, but it's small enough that standing 90 degrees to a monster will put you outside of it.) If you want targeted AoE HoTs, you want the BRD, though that's a far cry from primary healing.

[Daniolaut]

sorry just read Niqote's post.. sums it up nicely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUVI5ukXcRI <- This

I am a career WHM so I am completely biased ... but I do not want to see another class healing just as well as the WHM.

In FFXI Dancer was great, SMN was great, they healed but kept their own Identity.

Those SCHs however just rode on the coat tails of the BLM and WHM... I do not want to see that happen again

Let me add one thing though

I think the problem this thread is creating is you have people who play "MMORPG's" and you have people who play FFXI, and you have people who play Final Fantasy.

Final Fantasy has been the definitive RPG for many years. I am sorry its not a matter of opinion here, but FFVII brought the RPG genre to a much broader crowd and other companies saw it made good money and wanted to invest in that style of gaming.

***The main issue is the standard MMO has "healers" and Final Fantasy has made a staple with healing with a White Mage role job. If it wasnt specifically a WHM it was a person/role that was perceived as the White Mage. There is no need to change that formula it has worked and will continue to work. ***

The reason you have multiple role oriented classes is because they are more popular.
Ex.
Close Range Attack: Dragoon, Monk, Ninja, Samurai
Long Range Attack: Ranger, Black Mage, Summoner
High Health: Paladin, Knight, Warrior
Supportive: Mime, Bard, Dancer

Not as many people are interested in playing a HP restorative role as much as "beat them up" or some other role. Thus no need for adding another specific HP restorative role. Especially when you have jobs that support the WHM such as Paladin, Summoner, Bard, Dancer, etc.