Musketeer Needs a Job

[Altena]

Seriously. Stop.

You guys and FFXI. Do you have no creativity? Can you not think that bard spells are spells and that you can make him like a mage (rather then cast one and watch)? Or work out interactive AoE spells in combination perhaps making songs in circle zones, buff stacking and patterns? Seriously enough with the 2 min sit and watch examples.

If you look back at my post, you will notice that I did not mention any of XI's mechanics in a heavier weight then you have previously.. So your statement is rather hypocritical. Your examples are based on XI, and previous Final Fantasy (single player) examples.

Stop fixating on FFXI, almost every class was boring in FFXI imo (too slow for me personally I'm a little twitchy- which would be why I liked blue mage >.>).

You are fixating on XI yourself. I will stop when you do.

Also I didnt mention FFXI until after I said I didnt- so the sequence is correct lets not argue semantics and grammatical structure. A primary focus on ARC/BRD is to cast a song and let it sit while you shoot arrows. So what are you doing 90% of the time? Arrows. Not the focus (music), heart gone.

Still fixating on XI by the looks of things. Also, the correct term is "let's" or "let us".

If that is your concept of BRD then I wouldn't want you in my party. A good BRD casts Minuet or Paeon on the melee, decides whether the mages need Ballad or Minuet at certain points of the fight, while continuing to provide curing support or DD. The job is extremely supportive, and a good BRD will know this.

A BRD with a bow, is I agree not that far-fetched. But when you look at the ability set of the bard in 1.0, its not Bard with bow, its an archer with a few songs. The focus is in the wrong place (if 90% of the spells were songs and you sung/played music a lot and happened to use a bow when silenced or something - sure why not).

An advanced job is limited to 5 abilities at lvl 50. 4 of those 5 abilities are songs. In total, BRD has 4 songs, on top of an archer's skillset which already has one, which is actually quite a substantial amount when you compare the advanced skills in other jobs. (WHM for example makes CNJ go from a nuker/support to a full party healer).

Like a blackmage with a dagger is fine, but 90% of his skills shouldnt be shanking - thats a rogue with black magic lol

You are comparing a specialist to a hybrid/support. A fairer comparison would be something such as WAR. MRD has very few standalone hate generation abilities, and it is not until they become their advanced job that their hate generating abilities start to show.

Edit:
Also keeping in mind that because we have a class system we (it seems) only get one weapon per job and the weapon that makes the most sense for a Final Fantasy Bard is an instrument - because that has been his instrument in all the others, also just because its an instrument doesn't mean he is now useless - like geomancer uses a bell but he is pretty badass.

A summoner gets a book. What is your point? BRD is in a good place, it is a supportive party buff / low demand healer / DD. It still holds its identity with 5 of those abilities being party buff songs. Turning BRD in a complete "magey" class or job will make more people unhappy then it would make happy. You are effectively changing the hybrid/support ranged DPS into a hybrid spellcaster. If you want to play a supportive job that uses spells to deal damage and buff the party - play Summoner.

It could have done ranged attacks with musical instruments too like edwin did from FFIV, unlike XI's bard who just sang and couldn't do anything else. The concept wouldn't have to change - sing/play a song that buffs the party, then commence attacking. It just wouldn't be with a bow.

XI can do damage via songs, and cast enfeebs etc - but these were not used because it was proven to be quite ineffective. A standard ranged DPS is a much cleaner way to implement the job into a progressive fight.

And to the above pictures, you can post pictures of a bard using 50 different weapons, and you can do the same thing with every other class in this game. Doesn't really make a difference, lest I go find some pictures of paladins and 2 handed Swords/Axes/Maces, Crossbows, daggers, handaxes, handmaces, staves, and we can discuss some changes there as well.

Simply, the FINAL FANTASY bard is musical instruments for combat.

Of course I can, because we are indeed playing a fantasy game. The devs can do what they like with the job / role, and they have already defined how the role is going to be played. If it is just a graphical thing to you, go find a .dat swap and change bows to pretty flutes and golden harps for all we care. As long as the role is not redefined for your fantasies to become a wussy little miqo that paints rainbows and blows pipes.

[Nadrojj]

Sorry Shogun, what you're describing, the mechanics you are hoping for sounds to me more like guitar hero than anything. I get it you want the bard to be more musical. In most fantasy genre's bards are scoundrels, with an instrument, a dagger and often times a ranged weapon. In 14 we see a heavy reliance upon the bow and not so much on the musical side, which might bug some people (shogun) who feel they should be singing/playing music the entire time.

I believe somewhere I read that bards will now take out an instrument and play it while they are casting a song, but it will not take up an item/equip space. I haven't played many other mmo's with bards in them besides 11 and 14. I'd say the two are a far cry from each other. In 11 as a bard you basically ran around like a chicken with your head cut off playing songs and/or sleeping/pulling mobs. In 14 I can buff the party then dd. I much prefer being able to do some damage while helping a hand at the same time. I feel this mechanic makes up for the some what low damage output of the bard. I understand where you are coming from, and it might sound selfish but I hope your (Shogun) version of Bard never takes the place of the current Bard mechanics.

Also in regards to musketeer, I'd rather see musketeer move into something like a corsair instead of a red mage type job.

[schism]

I just hope the next ranged class/job actually does DAMAGE!! Archer/Bard is definitely nothing special so hopefully they can do something there. I think Ranger would be nice maybe even a widescan type ability, something different atleast and it's main focus is straight up DD. Archer just doesn't do it for me.

[Shougun]

Considering XI's PLD was able to use almost the same number of weapons as WAR before they changed that, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to see a PLD with an axe or mace. The axe would look iffy because I find axes to be a little barbaric, but I can let that slide. I got overly used to paladins and maces because of WoW, so that's not much of a stretch either.

This being said, the XI's Bard was also stupidly rare and gave way to the princess bard because its gameplay was something few were actually willing to put themselves through. If built-in DPS options with a bow (not to mention returning the bard to its status as a badass instead of the pansy we got used to in the FF series) helps get people to play the job, I say we win as a whole in the end. Even moreso if encounter balance will take having a BRD in-party into account, as chances are party leaders won't be killing each other just so they can have the sole bard in LFG join their group.

I know it kills you so.

PLD with a staff. Boom done. (It was you who was like "WTF paladin with a staff" right? lol)

Now I agree the BRD needed more options in 11 but that doesn't mean you had to go bow - in Reika's edit it seems you quoted old text, they say "It could have done ranged attacks with musical instruments too like edwin did from FFIV".

Bard could be 100% beautiful bard with no convulsion and we could have had Ranger as well, in fact you can tweak some of the Bard in 1.0 changing some of his end spells and you could have a very similar job (tweaked Bard - > Ranger ) and still have room for a real Bard who used music offensively and defensively - actively (FFXI is a bad example, its like saying tanks are boring because in this one game I saw a boring tank - if you pick the worst example of course it will look bad)

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lol I didnt think about it like that Nadrojj - but I have seen BRD in other MMOs a bit like guitar hero.. never played them so no idea if they worked...

But I'm not - I dont get peoples fixation on pointing out the worst bard example (FFXI) or saying that a bow is required for DPS.

Give the bard an auto attack where he strikes his harp (making a sharp note) and hits the monster - omg now he is a full on bard with music and he can dps just fine and he doesn't even have to be a mage class.

Also that scoundrel part is because of DnD who made it such but the definitions of bard is just a person who was a poet/sing/play music. Or the fact that in FF games he is literal to the definition (until FFXIV changed it)

Certainly you can change things - but that doesn't mean people need to agree. Like I said earlier you can argue a moogle should look like a chocobo and a chocobo should be a human but that doesn't mean SE should go changing Iconic design (and yes the Bard has enough history that he has an iconic design, and FFXIV bard goes against that).

[Medura]

HELLO!!! Pirates?????

Cannoner of course!

Also, considering he uses guns and not swords, thats the way to go. (None of the jobs changes the weapon the class use completely (ranged != meelee etc.)

[fmonkey13]

Realy wish they would suprise us and add it but doubt it will happen at launch1

[Altena]

Give the bard an auto attack where he strikes his harp (making a sharp note) and hits the monster - omg now he is a full on bard with music and he can dps just fine and he doesn't even have to be a mage class.

Also that scoundrel part is because of DnD who made it such but the definitions of bard is just a person who was a poet/sing/play music. Or the fact that in FF games he is literal to the definition (until FFXIV changed it)

I don't want to play a nancyboy that sings stuff to death. I want to play an Bard that sings/motivates the party to give them stronger buffs and kill stuff with a bow inbetween. BRD is fine as is, and it won't change so don't know why I care enough to reply to you anymore

Also if you actually followed the BRD storyline in XIV you will notice that the lore actually has a heavy weight on using a bow.

[LlenCoram]

Throwing in for MSK -> RDM. Not for any particular reason, but just 'cause I think it'd be new and interesting and fun. Casting buffs/debufss on your bullets, magic-powered attacks.

Could even have something like Mami's (from Puella Magi Madoka Magika) Tiro Finale as a 2 hour :P.

[schism]

Brd is fine if you don't like to do much damage and play 5 songs or something. I just remember playing fast walk song, throwing in some crap heals, raising ppl if needed, refreshing, and you can't forget that awesome damage dealing in between all of that. It really needs a facelift for it to attract ppl.

[Shougun]

Brd is fine if you don't like to do much damage and play 5 songs or something. I just remember playing fast walk song, throwing in some crap heals, raising ppl if needed, refreshing, and you can't forget that awesome damage dealing in between all of that. It really needs a facelift for it to attract ppl.

I thought Bard damage was pretty good? If I recall the parser correctly at least. They are a trihybrid though so its easy to be UP - but like I said I dont think that was the case.


You having an ARC can maybe say better, where did your damage fit in?


(btw they have 4 songs, mp, melee, hp, and tp)