Paladin vs Warrior - ARR better set roles!

[Reika]

DRG can hold hate on multiple mobs, so can BLM, so are you implying that DRG and BLM are tanking jobs?

Any job with a heavy AOE can pull aggro from a group of mobs.

Trash killing =/= tanking.

I don't know If I can explain why warrior would beat paladin in aoe tanking any day any better..... you would actually have to had tried both of them yourself to understand why.

[Altena]

I don't know If I can explain why warrior would beat paladin in aoe tanking any day any better..... you would actually have to had tried both of them yourself to understand why.

WAR is probably my 2nd most played job.
Our main tank (who primarily plays PLD) has no apparent issues tanking and holding a multiple group of mobs from well geared DD's.

I don't think I need much experience in PLD to know how the job is played. Watching people tank EG content and understanding PLD's mechanics is enough.

[darios]

LOL Poor PLD the job was the Puppet-master of the game. I do have to admit I had the luxury of meeting great PLDs on my FFXIV server. I'm sure they will fix it on beta and further patches. I'M JUST WAITING FOR THE NEW MONK WOOT!!!!

[Reika]

WAR is probably my 2nd most played job.
Our main tank (who primarily plays PLD) has no apparent issues tanking and holding a multiple group of mobs from well geared DD's.

I don't think I need much experience in PLD to know how the job is played. Watching people tank EG content and understanding PLD's mechanics is enough.

You must not have been trying then.

[Shougun]

No one understood me XD. I simply meant some people in here believe that both can do it all effectively. I don't. I KNOW paladin is the better single target tank and I KNOW warrior is the better multi-target tank.

I agree that the WAR can -sort of- tank better then say a monk or dragoon, but its not an efficent choice lest its multi target trash mobs.


What I'd like to see is better pure definitions with different styles of that work and less weird hybridness.


WAR is supreme for trash, you just dont ever want to exp with a PLD. But a PLD is way better for boss tanking (unless its multi trash boss stuff).


So rather then see WAR being bad at dps compared to dps classes and being bad at tanking compared to tanking classes (minus his hybrid pro - many trash mobs), and the PLD being good at only boss tanking and bad at everything else - I believe we need to change things. PLD needs some spells that encourage to tank but also dps at the same time - in that way he can work out of boss situations (or promote his group to do more dps, such that its still him helping in out of boss situations). The WAR needs to be decided if he is heavy slow dps or tanking because right now he is just a confused exp machine. (Turning him into full tank wouldnt mean nerfing his damage or at least that much, since its lower then a pure DD - making him a real tank in a different way then PLD would make great gameplay options but just make sure they both can work in all occasions, or just turn him into more DPS less tank)


So I got that you meant each is good at different things but I said that the choice is not about being effective because WAR is not effective at X compared to PLD at Y, and PLD at X is not effective at WAR at Y. Yet those points X and Y shouldn't be different. WAR shouldn't be only good at trash mob tanking - basically exp and some boss mechanics, thats a crappy thing to be put into at end game - and PLD shouldn't be only looked for during boss fights as you are restricted to very specific contents.

Of course who knows what has changed in ARR, so.. just saying 1.0 had issues and I hope they didnt carry them across.

[Altena]

You must not have been trying then.

Hmmm mythril & salts in AV/CC isn't trying? 6min Garuda kills isn't trying?

There is currently no situation where a "tank" needs to hold a large group of mobs for more then a few seconds. Any job with a high AOE damage ability and a good WHM can do that without difficulty. Often people take DRG or even BRD as the tank in the other split room in cutters.


PLD has no issues holding hate during the sisters pop during Garuda, with a simple ability rotation (Flash > Rampart > Hallowed).
PLD also has no issues holding both Princess and Marshall at the same time. These are currently the only 2 situations where truly tanking multiple mobs comes up.

Finally, if PLD has hate issues with a large group of mobs, they have access to one of the greatest AOE threat generators of them all - CURE !

[Reika]

Sigh....... Trying to hold agro against the paladin, not trying to play the game :/. By trying I meant using your agro skills against the paladins agro skills along with your aoe DD.

Did you ever fight Flame Fist?

[Altena]

Sigh....... Trying to hold agro against the paladin, not trying to play the game :/. By trying I meant using your agro skills against the paladins agro skills along with your aoe DD.

Did you ever fight Flame Fist?

We killed Flame Fist rather unconventionally most of the time. PLD runs in and HG's. DD's single target zerg FF and kill him before the party wipes. We didn't touch WAR's in that fight because their single target DPS is fairly garbage, and the less AoE flying around the place the better. Did that with most of the beastmen leaders TBH.

As for trying to hold aggro against the PLD > Not on WAR.. Only times I haven't been trash killing really has been IE. Not the kind of fight that you want to try and pull aggro..

[Reika]

We killed Flame Fist rather unconventionally most of the time. PLD runs in and HG's. DD's single target zerg FF and kill him before the party wipes. Did that with most of the beastmen leaders TBH.

You never did it with one party?

[fusional]

so many people chiming in on the subject with outdated knowledge