Speculation on how jobs will change

[Uriahnool]

I just really hope they add some uniqueness to the classes. One thing I hated about switching classes after the reform in 1.0 was how every class had a "Normal attack, medium attack, heavy attack" and you constantly had to cycle through the 1...2...3, 1...2...3, 1...2...3 chains over and over. Might be fine for something like MNK or WAR where there is a constant beating of the enemy and chains are important. But for LNC I'd like to see more focus on slower, but stronger attacks and ARC to focus on quick and rapid, but weaker attacks.

As far as BLM, which I am a big fan of, I'd like to see more "tricks" such as the different elements playing into the different elemental weaknesses of the mob depending on their type, or spells like Drain, MP Siphon, Bio, or Gravity for a "heavy" effect. I'd really like it if they stopped combining status effects into the spells. For weapon attacks, a brief status effect along with it is awesome, especially in combos. But for casting a spell, if those could be divided into elemental spells and status aliment spells separately I would really appreciate it.

I'd also like to have more variety on the classes and more than just one best way to win a tough battle. Seemed like in 1.0 too much for a battle like Ifrit or King Moogle, it had to be a certain exact setup of players and they have to stand in a specific spot and use a specific strategy to have any hope of winning. What if you have five black mages and three archers in your party? I'd like to know even in that situation you could work out a strategy or use unorthodox methods such as more items in place of buffs or heals and still squeeze out a victory. It would be very odd to want to do it this way, but to know that it can be done if it really had to be done, that would be fun.

And I would like more phoenix downs. I want 99 of them in my inventory. /endrant

[Altena]

I'd also like to have more variety on the classes and more than just one best way to win a tough battle. Seemed like in 1.0 too much for a battle like Ifrit or King Moogle, it had to be a certain exact setup of players and they have to stand in a specific spot and use a specific strategy to have any hope of winning. What if you have five black mages and three archers in your party? I'd like to know even in that situation you could work out a strategy or use unorthodox methods such as more items in place of buffs or heals and still squeeze out a victory. It would be very odd to want to do it this way, but to know that it can be done if it really had to be done, that would be fun.

And I would like more phoenix downs. I want 99 of them in my inventory. /endrant

I feel kind of the opposite. I would rather see jobs have a more defining role then they do presently.

As for strategies, there are far more setups then 1 setup to beat a fight. The reason people seem to get stuck in very specific strategies is it is technically the optimal setup. It is a safer fight, and easier on the WHM to deal ranged DD on Ifrit as an example, so that is the conventional or optimal way that most PUG groups run. These optimal setups are usually widely known strategies and across the server and easy to slot people into, and allows people that don't play together to defeat content easier. A group of players that play together regularly, know each others playstyle and typically "gel" just have a higher chance of success with this "less optimal" setups.

[Uriahnool]

Well, I guess what bothered me the most is toward the end I saw a lot of people shouting for "experienced" players only for boss fights, or fights where they need exactly two WHM, two BLM, two MRD and two LNC or something like that. It would take a long time to find the right party. I understand the need for a tank, healers, and damage dealers. I don't know if it was the boss fight environment itself or how the classes were limited, but it just seemed like it should be easier to dive into a fight without prior knowledge of the battle and still be able to muster a win. Something was limiting the parties. If there are going to be instanced dungeons and a lot more new players coming into the game, there needs to be more freedom in the classes.

For example: If your WHM died (which is entirely possible because they have low defense) nobody is able to cure or raise and then everyone else dies pretty quick afterwards. On Ifrit, people were opting to go in as THM instead of BLM so they could have a raise ability. They shouldn't have to do this, but should either have raise still available, or an item to raise.

One good example I have is FF Tactics, where you could go into battle with a variety of classes and sort of compensate for some classes by using the strengths of others. Instead of using a BLM and nuking the enemy, you could use time magic and slow down the enemy to get in more hits, or you could use an archer and disable the enemy with some strategic shots. Instead of a WHM for curing poison or using shell/protect - an alchemist could throw a lunar curtain or a remedy around or a mega-potion to cure the party. Instead of a tank taking all the hate and damage, maybe a strategy where two or three lancers have turns with hate and divide the damage among them.

[SodRansom]

Well, I guess what bothered me the most is toward the end I saw a lot of people shouting for "experienced" players only for boss fights, or fights where they need exactly two WHM, two BLM, two MRD and two LNC or something like that. It would take a long time to find the right party. I understand the need for a tank, healers, and damage dealers. I don't know if it was the boss fight environment itself or how the classes were limited, but it just seemed like it should be easier to dive into a fight without prior knowledge of the battle and still be able to muster a win. Something was limiting the parties. If there are going to be instanced dungeons and a lot more new players coming into the game, there needs to be more freedom in the classes.

For example: If your WHM died (which is entirely possible because they have low defense) nobody is able to cure or raise and then everyone else dies pretty quick afterwards. On Ifrit, people were opting to go in as THM instead of BLM so they could have a raise ability. They shouldn't have to do this, but should either have raise still available, or an item to raise.

One good example I have is FF Tactics, where you could go into battle with a variety of classes and sort of compensate for some classes by using the strengths of others. Instead of using a BLM and nuking the enemy, you could use time magic and slow down the enemy to get in more hits, or you could use an archer and disable the enemy with some strategic shots. Instead of a WHM for curing poison or using shell/protect - an alchemist could throw a lunar curtain or a remedy around or a mega-potion to cure the party. Instead of a tank taking all the hate and damage, maybe a strategy where two or three lancers have turns with hate and divide the damage among them.

I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Because what it seems like is that you're saying that there should be more variety in roles, like whm isn't the only kind of healer, and pld isn't the only kind of tank and then I would agree, although it couldn't happen until there were more classes/jobs created. I would love that actually, that sort of variety is one thing that's attractive to me about the ff series.

But if you're saying that every class/job should be able to do all things, like every class being able to raise AND heal AND do damage, then I don't agree with that. It removes the identity from each job and waters them down too much. Each job should have its specialty and be made to excel in that area, and that way players can choose who they want to be. If I choose to have white mage be my main its because I know that I like healing people. I don't want to join a party and be expected to tank because white mage has that ability. Or same with dd, I don't want to have to be expected to be the main healer. Others might disagree, they might like jobs to be more versatile, but I'd just put my vote against that.

[Altena]

Well, I guess what bothered me the most is toward the end I saw a lot of people shouting for "experienced" players only for boss fights, or fights where they need exactly two WHM, two BLM, two MRD and two LNC or something like that. It would take a long time to find the right party. I understand the need for a tank, healers, and damage dealers.

Not *entirely* true but yes I do agree the standard tank/whm/dd setup is conventional. Nothing is stopping you from running into Ifrit with 8 Paladins, slowly hacking away at him, ignoring nails then popping hallowed ground during Hellfire and what not, but that is not conventional or by any means optimal. It truly depends on a player's playstyle. As long as it works, there is nothing stopping a group from doing this sort of thing.

I don't know if it was the boss fight environment itself or how the classes were limited, but it just seemed like it should be easier to dive into a fight without prior knowledge of the battle and still be able to muster a win. Something was limiting the parties. If there are going to be instanced dungeons and a lot more new players coming into the game, there needs to be more freedom in the classes.

I see it as more of a community expectation that "certain fights require certain jobs" however that community expectation is based on strategies that are widely known and can be best described as "the conventional way to win". For example, from time to time we have done some fights (I don't like giving too many details about my experience on here) with stacked DD such as MNK or DRG on fights that are usually BLM burned and they are quite successful ways of winning. I think it simply comes down to how well players interact / gel with each other as I mentioned previously.

There is some content that is truly best to stick to optimal setups but in the end an optimal setup is what works for you and your group, which is not necessarily the conventional "way of doing things".

For example: If your WHM died (which is entirely possible because they have low defense) nobody is able to cure or raise and then everyone else dies pretty quick afterwards. On Ifrit, people were opting to go in as THM instead of BLM so they could have a raise ability. They shouldn't have to do this, but should either have raise still available, or an item to raise.

It is a good habit to get into to always carry raise pots on you - regardless if they are called Phoenix downs or GC tonics but it's just smart play. Getting quick at using them on a dead WHM is always good practise as well. I am not on here for a lesson, but merely pointing out that there are ways around giving each class a more definitive role.

One good example I have is FF Tactics, where you could go into battle with a variety of classes and sort of compensate for some classes by using the strengths of others. Instead of using a BLM and nuking the enemy, you could use time magic and slow down the enemy to get in more hits, or you could use an archer and disable the enemy with some strategic shots. Instead of a WHM for curing poison or using shell/protect - an alchemist could throw a lunar curtain or a remedy around or a mega-potion to cure the party. Instead of a tank taking all the hate and damage, maybe a strategy where two or three lancers have turns with hate and divide the damage among them.

I would like a *little* more diversity in jobs, as you mentioned above but I just worry that diversifying too much will close the gap to adding more original classes later. I am all for more supportive roles, as I believe XI was a prime example of "supportive" jobs (such as BRD/COR etc). The only issue here is you don't want these supportive roles taking the flame from the specialist roles an aweful lot - like what we saw in XI for a while when nobody wanted a WHM to heal, it was all about the infinite MP pool of a RDM.

I think the key to achieving this idealistic mentality that you would like to see is finding a fairly regular group that has both job diversity and skill on a personal level (players are able to step into multiple jobs aside from their mains), grinding through content with them until you get efficient at a particular content, and then opening up your minds to some experimenting. Not only does this make each person in that party a better, more diverse, skilled player - but it is also loads of fun! In the end this is what the games are all about.

I personally don't feel that diversifying jobs is the answer to this issue, as I believe they need more distinctive traits and abilities that define them as a job. After all, the armory system is in place for this diversification to begin with. You are playing a character with multiple skills to begin with.

Finally I know you don't like this as the answer but classes are still an option. While jobs like DRG or MNK gets a heavy DPS hit when switching to a class, classes like THM are still quite a powerful casting class, as you only miss out on a couple of situational spells and a larger MP pool. They are still functional and pack enough punch if you truly need to have that extra cure, raise or AOE sanguine.

Each to their own though, opinions are valued.

*edit* wholly bidjesus I didn't think this post was actually this long when typing it...