Highly Notorious Monsters

[Jeronlmo]

I count 26 pages in this thread, many of them refuting this claim.

In point of fact, the main force that sent many of those 500k subscribers away after FFXI's peak was World of Warcraft, a game that catered much more highly to the casual player, and a game that has yet to be bested in terms of financial success or player population ever since it knocked FFXI out of the #1 spot.

I can even remember hearing the stories as people left. "It's so much better than FFXI. I can log in for only a couple hours a day and actually make progress!" "Soo much nicer not having to sit around camping NMs for hours in order to get drops."

I could go on, but you get the gist.

You could go on but you would still be wrong. Until abyssea came FF11 only ever lost a very small portion of the population, the fact that more people like wow is because there are more gimps in the world just like there are more dumb people than smart people, WoW is actually designed to require less thought hense the giant arrows telling you where to go. The fact that FF11 "only" had 500k subs is because gaming until WoW was designed for people who actually like gaming, WoW is treated as a social network similar to facebook rather than a game.

[Blackpearlguy]

I count 26 pages in this thread, many of them refuting this claim.

In point of fact, the main force that sent many of those 500k subscribers away after FFXI's peak was World of Warcraft, a game that catered much more highly to the casual player, and a game that has yet to be bested in terms of financial success or player population ever since it knocked FFXI out of the #1 spot.

26 pages and not one example? Also didn't talk about WoW once in my post and clearly it was successful. FATE in GW2 is fun at first, but just go look how they keep changing everything and spamming past players with hooks to try to get them to come back. Like I previously said there should be options that's all.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game. I don't like PvP or Materia and a bunch of other things but it won't stop me from doing them if I want to progress further or help out friends. If someone can give me an example other than a) I don't want to camp and b) it's to much like FFXI i'd probably have a clearer understanding. Just seems like to many limitations are being placed for lame excuses.

[Eekiki]

You could go on but you would still be wrong. Until abyssea came FF11 only ever lost a very small portion of the population...nonsense redacted...The fact that FF11 "only" had 500k subs is because gaming until WoW was designed for people who actually like gaming, WoW is treated as a social network similar to facebook rather than a game.

I agree with what you say about WoW being more of a social network than a game. That's why I don't play WoW.

But there is no way you can tell me that FFXI didn't lose the bulk of its subscribers in 2006 when WoW was released. When Abyssea was released the general consensus of the greater MMORPG-playing community was, "People still play FFXI?"

[Lady]

Actually, a lot of the blame for FFXI's lost players went to CoP's release. Originally CoP had a high learning curve for its missions, which is when a lot of casuals hung up their subligar, and went to play easier games like WoW.

[Jeronlmo]

And I hope you can see how your two schools of thought can't co-exist in the same game, because of two reasons.

1. If the gear you get from your "HNMs" is equal to gear you get from instanced raids, triggered pop NMs, or boss fights. NO ONE is going to bother sitting on their asses for hours doing nothing waiting for an HNM to pop. It isn't fun. It isn't. Stop pretending it is. Shut up.

2. If the long-lottery-repop HNM gear is superior to all others, then that's all anyone will care about endgame, so no one will bother with instanced raids, boss fights, triggered pops, PvP, or anything else. You're tossing dozens of potential forms of content in the garbage for one that's not fun in any way.

Except for the fact that they did co-exist in the same game for 10yrs+ which this is atleast the 4th time ive said this. The majority of gear if not all of the good gear from HNM's excluding D.ring were also in Einherjar, incase you never played FF11, Einherjar is an instanced event that took 30min in total and the drops including every abj. that HNM's did plus many HNM's did not have, and also... higher drop rates, yet people did HNM's, we did find it fun.

[Takeshi_Eiketsu]

I am adding my two cents because I matter.

First, I am not opposed to HNMs...but I am bothered by OPs complete one sided coverage of the topic...quoting people who help his case and stating those that disagree are mere "nay-sayers".

Anyway, I would like to see HNMs too BUT not the way so many others do...for example:

DO NOT give ANY NM, be it HNM or otherwise, a spawn time greater than an hour. This is ridiculous, and a time sink method of an archaic age of MMOs. Even when I had all the time in the world to devote to FFXI back in the day, I hated. It is competitive...but I call it anxiety driven. I do no play a game to stress out...that is counter productive.

I say Soloable NMs 5-15 minute spawn (if they are timer based), and HNMs get 30mins-1hr (If they are time based.)

DO add interesting pop scenarios, Id like to see monsters spawn only at night, or when raining, or at a full moon/dark moon, etc etc etc. This would include item pops, such as pouring pheromones on a stone, etc.

DO give members tokens for participation that can be traded in to an NPC for the NMs drops...so people like me (who aren't a HNM LS creator, or co-creator) can get the items too, without being a abused for manpower.

[Xatsh]

I count 26 pages in this thread, many of them refuting this claim.

In point of fact, the main force that sent many of those 500k subscribers away after FFXI's peak was World of Warcraft, a game that catered much more highly to the casual player, and a game that has yet to be bested in terms of financial success or player population ever since it knocked FFXI out of the #1 spot.\

This is a complete false statment. Yes some people left for WoW, was less then 10% of the subs though.

At WoWs release FFXI had about 570k subs based on VGChartz. 1 YR after WoW release the game was at about 530k subs and it stayed there for the next 6 yrs with losing ~10-15k subs a year. which is incredibly stable for an aging mmo. The first large loss was the release of abysea with XI.

WoW made almost no dent in XI's population. You want to look at other games it did where thier sub counts plumeted by over 50% within a year.

NOw I will make a point that wow stopped XI's growth. It was growing every year until WoW's launch.

[Jeronlmo]

I am adding my two cents because I matter.

First, I am not opposed to HNMs...but I am bothered by OPs complete one sided coverage of the topic...quoting people who help his case and stating those that disagree are mere "nay-sayers".

Anyway, I would like to see HNMs too BUT not the way so many others do...for example:

DO NOT give ANY NM, be it HNM or otherwise, a spawn time greater than an hour. This is ridiculous, and a time sink method of an archaic age of MMOs. Even when I had all the time in the world to devote to FFXI back in the day, I hated. It is competitive...but I call it anxiety driven. I do no play a game to stress out...that is counter productive.

I say Soloable NMs 5-15 minute spawn (if they are timer based), and HNMs get 30mins-1hr (If they are time based.)

DO add interesting pop scenarios, Id like to see monsters spawn only at night, or when raining, or at a full moon/dark moon, etc etc etc. This would include item pops, such as pouring pheromones on a stone, etc.

DO give members tokens for participation that can be traded in to an NPC for the NMs drops...so people like me (who aren't a HNM LS creator, or co-creator) can get the items too, without being a abused for manpower.

For the 5th time, you did not have to do HNM's to get HNM gear, you simply did not have to, Einherjar was an option, it had all of HNM's drops + 2-3x more abj's.

You only want soloable NM's to kill and do not want a ls... its called a RPG, go try it.

[Xatsh]

I am adding my two cents because I matter.

First, I am not opposed to HNMs...but I am bothered by OPs complete one sided coverage of the topic...quoting people who help his case and stating those that disagree are mere "nay-sayers".

Anyway, I would like to see HNMs too BUT not the way so many others do...for example:

DO NOT give ANY NM, be it HNM or otherwise, a spawn time greater than an hour. This is ridiculous, and a time sink method of an archaic age of MMOs. Even when I had all the time in the world to devote to FFXI back in the day, I hated. It is competitive...but I call it anxiety driven. I do no play a game to stress out...that is counter productive.

I say Soloable NMs 5-15 minute spawn (if they are timer based), and HNMs get 30mins-1hr (If they are time based.)

DO add interesting pop scenarios, Id like to see monsters spawn only at night, or when raining, or at a full moon/dark moon, etc etc etc. This would include item pops, such as pouring pheromones on a stone, etc.

DO give members tokens for participation that can be traded in to an NPC for the NMs drops...so people like me (who aren't a HNM LS creator, or co-creator) can get the items too, without being a abused for manpower.

I am going to make 3 comments.

1) if it is a 1hr spawn the drop rate is going to have to be abysmal. 1 hr spawn = 5% drop rate. 1 day spawn = 100% drop rate. If this is not the case the content will be finished in 1-2 weeks after release. Will just be way way too easy to get everything. As others said if peopel do not like hnms, DO NOT DO THEM. If se makes it like XI you do not have to get the gear. Going to emphasise this since people seem to not understand, in XI you did not have to do hnms to get the hnm drops there were other methods.

2) For hnms tokens are horrible system unless the token are so restrictive it will take along time to get anything. The last thing we need is a gear give away. As for having to be a leader to get gear... you were a member of a really garage guild. In the end if you are in a guild where the leaders put themselves first on lotting, you are the fool for being in it. It is a failure of leadership if this is case and foolishness of the player to remain in that guild. Most well run guilds this is not the case.

3) the unique spawn conditions I am with you 100%

[Andrien]

Some people definition of difficulty, hardcore, and fun, revolves around sitting on their hands waiting for a pop window, and hitting that provoke macro button before someone else does I guess. It is what it is, some people just prefer it that way.

That is pretty damn boring in my opinion, but I don't mind if ARR have them.


Anyways I'll say this again, I find tiered HNMs like those of sky/sea/einherjar, and in abyssea to be more engaging by luring out monsters with key items. I think a lot of people will agree, I'll like a lot of this and more in ARR. Thank you very much.