A Little Pain with my Pleasure

[ArkhamNative]

If it's possible to get any class to maximum level in less than a month, no xp loss at death could be big enough. IMHO.

[Altena]

There weren't any major consequences to death in 1.x which really made it meaningless to die.. Bring back some form of reasonably major penalty to death and you will get people playing a little bit smarter.

[HiirNoivl]

Kinda abstract term for fun. Its like you don't want any measure of challenge or skill required to play this game. MMOs require people to play longer, not necessarily to play successful. If you have only an hour a week to squeeze in your gameplay, why are you trampling on the players that want more than an hour's worth of game? Perhaps you are the one getting in the way of fun.

Imagine... FFXIV:ARR You must be this skilled to play!

Skill and challenge should be required for SOME content. Not the whole game.

And challenge should come from the game environment and mechanics not pointless annoying gimmicks that don't do anything for you and actually inhibit or reverse progress

[Mjollnir]

clearly. your lodestone history doesn't lie. unless you'd really be audacious enough to imply killing great buffalo like 2 years after it was ever relevant was somehow difficult, risky and noteworthy?

I wasn't being sarcastic. I played 1.0 alpha/beta and about two weeks of launch before coming back in March 2012, at which point it was difficult as hell to play group content (PUG or GTFO). That Great Buffalo you mention was only beaten by hanging around the spawn point and /emoting at a group of Japanese players to join up and like get the kill, as no-one English-speaking in Ul'dah had been interested in helping out for days.

So no, I wasn't being stupid and suggesting that Great Buffalo was hard content. It took a party of seven players (one of whom was myself, who could barely communicate with the rest of the team) and was a breeze.

no, i'm sure you've died quote a lot, even on your trivialized content. which may have something to do with you never doing 17min speed runs, darnus hard, ifrit extreme... or even lowly garuda.

or even lowly Ifrit. or lowly lowly King Moggle. I've never stated that I've been able to complete the group-oriented content; that's the disadvantage of re-joining a game toward the end of its life when all of the friends you've made have either stopped playing or joined/created an elite linkshell and have no time to help you out because they have their own goals set to reach before server shutdown (because just one relic isn't enough! :P).

I don't know what you mean by "your trivialised content". Are you saying that the only worthwhile content in the game was NVD Hard and Ifrit Extreme? Ok, I guess. The most challenging thing I found in this game was getting a party together, so if you already have a good 'shell, I can understand if the all of the content aside from those two battles becomes trivial for you. I don't think that's a particularly objective way of considering the game as a whole. It just makes you sound silly.

and truly, i don't bring any of this up as an insult. people play at their own pace and that's perfectly fine.

You insult people regularly on this forum by stating that their ideas and opinions hold no merit because they're not elite players like you. If you don't mean to, perhaps you should review your words before you hit 'submit'. Your original response to me on this thread was unnecessarily rude, for instance.

i bring it up to give perspective, and to point out your lack of it. because it's easy for someone to talk big about things which they have little or no experience with.

I don't know how me stating I'd prefer perma-death (a topic discussed in earlier threads, so won't go back over here) over XP loss is "talking big". And wait, this is a discussion on death which, despite my previous ironic response, I actually do have a lot of experience with. I may not have Ifrit and Garuda wins on my Lodestone, but I sure did attempt them many, many times.

You seem to think that because I don't play the game the same way as you do, I don't have a valid perspective on the game. There's a lot more to the FFXIV experience than beating the instanced battles and dungeons. For example, exploration (content I was enjoying and completed months before you had tackled it. haha!), storyline, music, economy and standing in Ul'dah to name but a few.

yes, actually. my contribution will be to continue to push on the bleeding edge of new content, releasing videos and strategies and DPS rotations and healing tips so people can, you know...

...finish these fights with minimal deaths. and maybe improve as players!

should we discuss your contribution now? because all i see you doing is making shitty suggestions about things you have no understanding of.

Purposeful misunderstanding? I was referring to a contribution to this thread's topic, not to the community as a whole. But, as you brought it up, I've never seen any videos with your character in or read any strategies that you may have posted, so they can't have been that relevant.

Whereas you're fully entitled to think my suggestion is shitty (a number of people did in the other thread too), it is rather foolish of you to assume I have no understanding of the implications of penalties for character death. Like the majority of people posting here, FFXIV is not the only game I've played^^

[Pseudopsia]

There are some real opinions on the issue it seems. I have felt that the idea of gear damage has favored the gil sellers to some degree. Yes it has given the crafters more to do and I enjoy that aspect. What about giving a choice of exp or gear damage?

Paying gil to repair gear is far better option than exp loss/deleveling. Gil is tradable, however exp is not. We will have 24 man raiding in ARR can you imagine if 3 people deleveled after a wipe. It will pretty much stop or delay raiding for the night. However if 3 players run out of gil someone from the raid can just give the poor players some gil to repair then the group can continue raiding. I remember from WoW we had guild bank repair where anyone can repair using gold from bank, members would donate to the pool of gold in the guild bank.

Having a choice between exp loss or gear damage will not be seamless, I see it as an odd thing to implement and be odd for immersion.

[Kallera]

Imagine... FFXIV:ARR You must be this skilled to play!

Skill and challenge should be required for SOME content. Not the whole game.

And challenge should come from the game environment and mechanics not pointless annoying gimmicks that don't do anything for you and actually inhibit or reverse progress

Your gimmicks are my mechanics, case in point, "game environment," most people would call that a gimmick since players only need to figure out where not to stand or where to run through, and any subsequent challenge or danger from the environment is gone, plastered all over the internet with strategies and videos.

When you die, you revive at your home point, or your residence, want to know why you can't revive at the very spot you died at? Because it screws with any sense of difficulty and teamwork in the name of convenience. The reason people clear content so quick in this game isn't solely on skill, but they can throw themselves at it ad nauseum, which is short term fun, but long term aggravating when you are looking for content that everyone else has done already and you are SOL without a social ls (1.0s Toto Rak being a fine example of this).

But why this sudden aversion to having an response to poor gameplay? Soon you get your weapon, your friends get bored, and you're off to
Something else. MMOs thrive on having these experiences be longer and with more attachment than the average game, not less. Would you pay 100$+ a year for an rpg with the same length as Platinuming a offline PS3 RPG for 40-60$?

[Altena]

Since people are being narky over the EXP topic~

Give weakness/brink of death to people even if they have been raised by a WHM. (Why they let you die with no penalty if someone raises you is beyond me)..
Reduce their movement speed for a minute or so.
Double all ability recast times.
Slow auto-attack speed.

Weakness in XI was enough to make you not want to die. Weakness in XIV had little to no impact.

[Exn]

Weakness in XI was enough to make you not want to die. Weakness in XIV had little to no impact.

This. Not to mention i't's an absolute cake walk in XIV to obtain EXP.

I think this is a really good idea OP. EXP loss/de-lvl on death would prolly fit in pretty well here (even moreso than in XI) since there seems to be an abundance of easy and fast EXP gain. It would help to encourage better strats, and also give more purpose to what others might consider more trivialized content (pt grinding, quest grinding, dungeon grinding, pick your poison..). Also it's just something that isn't used often, so can serve as another possible idea to set ARR apart.

[HiirNoivl]

Your gimmicks are my mechanics, case in point, "game environment," most people would call that a gimmick since players only need to figure out where not to stand or where to run through, and any subsequent challenge or danger from the environment is gone, plastered all over the internet with strategies and videos.

Not even remotely true. There's a humongous gap between reading or watching someone play and doing it yourself. Strategy and difficulty need to be added in the gameplay aspect not after a wipe.Death penalty is a cheap nonsolution.

When you die, you revive at your home point, or your residence, want
to know why you can't revive at the very spot you died at? Because it screws with any sense of difficulty and teamwork in the name of convenience. The reason people clear content so quick in this game isn't solely on skill, but they can throw themselves at it ad nauseum, which is short term fun, but long term aggravating when you are looking for content that everyone else has done already and you are SOL without a social ls (1.0s Toto Rak being a fine example of this).

Death penalties have little to do witj skill linkshells or why people don't do content. Its a bandaid for a lack of difficulty and adds none. Exp loss would have serious consequences for groups out raiding and would hamstring smaller parties that coul want to do things like Totorak. And what are you talking about clearing cotent too quick? MAYbe you should ask yourself whats taking you so long?

But why this sudden aversion to having an response to poor gameplay? Soon you get your weapon, your friends get bored, and your off to
Something else. MMOs thrive on having these experiences be longer and with more attachment than the average game, not less. Would you pay 100$+ a year for an rpg with the same length as Platinuming a offline PS3 RPG for 40-60$?

Boredom is a killer in mmos but so is frustration. Frustrating aspects need to be minimal.


I do my thing get my weapon but if I die and lose a level and can't use it or lose the weapon due to some pointless death penalty you bet I'm off to do something else

[Exn]

yes, actually. my contribution will be to continue to push on the bleeding edge of new content, releasing videos and strategies and DPS rotations and healing tips so people can, you know...

...finish these fights with minimal deaths. and maybe improve as players!

For the record. That's NOT a contribution.. That's what YOU do because YOU want to do it. That's what YOU do because YOU prefer doing that to anything else... YOU choose to commit your time to playing content for hours on end right after it releases (occasionally) because you simply enjoy doing it. YOU team up with like-minded players who also live for being the first one to complete content in an online fantasy world. YOU live for your bragging rights and claiming you created w/e strategy. Which, also for the record, isn't a big accomplishment in the first place.. you just HAPPEN to have alot of free time on your hands, period.

If you wanted to make a contribution, you'd go along and beat the content WITHOUT blabbing whatever strategy your LS came up with all over the interwebs effectively making it a piece of cake to take the challenge out of the encounter.. Giving ppl the answers isn't a contribution, it's just what your type of shells like to do.

Therefore, if you want to play a game for a helluva lot longer than most ppl have the time for, or simply care to, then do so... But keep the attitude to yourself.. no one else cares.

It's pretty easy to respect the more hardcore players who know how to keep their foot outta their mouth and just want to offer their opinion based on their own experiences, but sometimes you go off on tangents thinking your some sorta gift to the gaming world..

At the end of the day, your 'greater than thou' attitude is unwarranted and the reason why most ppl ignore everything you 'claim' on these forums.