AoE Placement

[Shougun]

I could necro a thread but w.e


If you dont know what an AoE marker is, its this thing (but not this ugly... lol):

Now I hope to tell you why ARR will be better off with them, rather then without.

First, it does tell you where its going to hit and you probably have or seen an argument like "its too easy".

But that argument isnt fully thought through. Keep this in mind as we go: games are designed with what the devs know you have at your finger tips - this is why some people are against addons, is because it let players play better so devs made harder gameplay but if you didnt use the addon now its unreasonably balanced.

(Except dont use that argument here because I'm saying dev supplied :P)

Ok with aoe markers you can predict enemy location by placing the aoe down in front of you and calculating the time it will take for the enemy to get to you or to whatever location (adding strategy).

Also this means that faster enemy monsters can get out of your aoe zone because you didnt aim right.

You may be more effective and hit multiple monsters this way as well.

Now that the dev knows you can do these strategic actions they will (or should) design content with that expectation in mind. So "its easy" is an inaccurate assertion unless you doubt Yoshida's competence..


The problems I do see is that some people dont like high action combat (because yes "auto lock Firaballs" is the easy stuff, not self targeting), or that the PS3 controller may be a pain to target with. Anyone that has used a marker targeting system on the PS3 speak up . FPS dont count because thats a reticle, need literal "marker" placement.

A thought for making it possible for ps3 users and or people who dont want to aim is that you can cast AoE spells on targets, where it would have a soft lock cursor if you mouse close to the monster or tab onto it will then lock on to the monster and change the aoe marker design to show that its a locked aoe - this means whever that target goes your aoe will pop off. In this way it is a little easier but the most effective combatant would mix it up between these two systems, meaning its still more difficult then before (also this takes away the option of making some spells AoE autolocks like some homing Fire ball but then making others aoe non lock like a giant ice comet).

I hate to add the "everyone is doing it" reason, but .. its true - SE combat system is behind and unless they plan on making it more of a social MMORPG then they should probably beef their combat flexibility and potential.


TL;DR - markers add higher accuracy and allow you to take actions in advance due to predictions, greater variance in abilities*, and it also allows monsters more freedom in their behaviors (extra room for AI).


*If someone could reply about the PS3, that'd help.. lol If you have to add markerplacement with auto target option then the benefit of ability variance goes down - still have better accuracy, being able to predict movements and allowing monsters more freedom though.

[Lady]

I get the idea that these would be useful, but there's the old school part of me that doesn't like it.

Maybe I'm getting old and this fresh new idea frightens me XD

[Shougun]

I get the idea that these would be useful, but there's the old school part of me that doesn't like it.

Maybe I'm getting old and this fresh new idea frightens me XD

Lol Well some people just dont want to bother with it - which I guess if thats the majority of SE target audience.. then its a good choice not to do. I dont think SE target audience is that way, but obviously all I got is a feeling lol - I dont have magic powers... at least for this.. ^_^;

But having used aoe markers a lot I feel SE system is very archaic and less strategic.

(But like I said some people just dont want to care about it, like I suck at a lot of RTS games because I dont want to manage all the little guys - but the truth is that is a big part of the strategy and so in that audience if you didnt have that feature you'd be making a bad choice).

[Duelle]

I get the idea that these would be useful, but there's the old school part of me that doesn't like it.

Maybe I'm getting old and this fresh new idea frightens me XD

It's not really that fresh an idea. It's more an extension of target-based AoEs but with a little more control. It's also almost always used for spells with effects that have to be channeled to persist (Blizzard, Rain of Fire in WoW, Death from Above in TOR).

I like the idea, OP, but the tough part will be in finding spells that fit the bill for ground target AoEs. Only thing that comes to mind is maybe something used by Archers/Bards to shoot arrows at a specific spot. BLMs would be a toss up unless the the -ja line of spells is reimagined as ground target AoE spells while the -ga are target-based AoEs like they currently are.

[Orophin]

"My immersion"

But I am curious to whether there will be a visible marker to show how large of an area your AoE spells will hit. In 1.0 you just kinda had to do it all by feel.

[Shougun]

"My immersion"

But I am curious to whether there will be a visible marker to show how large of an area your AoE spells will hit. In 1.0 you just kinda had to do it all by feel.

If we were in a hardcore game I'd say it should make you have to place the spell but you don't get a visual helper lol - like in Dark Souls. (Not that the big targeting lock on arrow in 1.0 or the circle in 2.0 is very immersive either :P)

But I dont think the audience is honestly that hardcore, and you can reduce the immersion interference by not making it so obnoxious like a lot of games do.

[Klefth]

"My immersion"

But I am curious to whether there will be a visible marker to show how large of an area your AoE spells will hit. In 1.0 you just kinda had to do it all by feel.

If I recall correctly, they said they were not going to implement something like that. Think it had to do with not presenting players with a bloated screen displaying multiple people's aoe ranges and whatnot. It was in a pretty old post, so I don't know if I want to/could find it.

As for aiming your aoes à la LoL... I don't think they'll ever implement that. Remember this won't be a PC exclusive. I think this would be really hard to do and pretty cumbersome for gamepad players or people on the PS3.

[Shougun]

As for aiming your aoes à la LoL... I don't think they'll ever implement that. Remember this won't be a PC exclusive. I think this would be really hard to do and pretty cumbersome for gamepad players or people on the PS3.

Yeah near the end of my OP I mentioned that. I've never played a ps3 game that let you place things except in a birds eye view - which FFXIV doesn't have. I added a kind of compromise between the two.

In dark souls they let you cast AoE spells at a location but you dont get to place it with a pretty marker, you have to guess. Very hardcore lol

People have the capability to get use to it..Why clog up the game with rings?
We have always adjusted to it with AOEs in the past.
No reason to remake the wheel, it's turning just fine.
To me it means you had to be good with that job to not suck with it.
That's absolutely fine by me.

I disagree. I think it made it too easy. Just auto target auto follow cast a spell.

[Solace]

Yeah near the end of my OP I mentioned that. I've never played a ps3 game that let you place things except in a birds eye view - which FFXIV doesn't have. I added a kind of compromise between the two.

In dark souls they let you cast AoE spells at a location but you dont get to place it, you have to guess. Very hardcore lol



I disagree. I think it made it too easy. Just auto target auto follow cast a spell.

You auto targeted an used AOEs? So you didn't care what was around it or if they would also get hit by the aoe, causing aggro and potential wipes to the group?

Was nothing easy about placing an AOE on a moving target and using it at the correct moment, when hate was set.
You had to choose your moment and make sure nothing else would get hit..
Auto targeting had nothing to do with it.
Just because you auto target something doesn't mean you are about to AOE it..
That's just selection..

[Shougun]

You auto targeted an used AOEs? So you didn't care what was around it or if they would also get hit by the aoe, causing aggro and potential wipes to the group?

Was nothing easy about placing an AOE on a moving target and using it at the correct moment, when hate was set.
You had to choose your moment and make sure nothing else would get hit..
Auto targeting had nothing to do with it.
Just because you auto target something doesn't mean you are about to AOE it..
That's just selection..

I meant you cast an aoe on a target and then just watch - the monster cant move out of the way unless it really runs away (out of distance). Could even cast it on monster blinking lol, your spell would follow.

Thats easier imo then placing it on the ground where there are more things that can go wrong.