AoE Placement

[Shougun]

I could necro a thread but w.e


If you dont know what an AoE marker is, its this thing (but not this ugly... lol):

Now I hope to tell you why ARR will be better off with them, rather then without.

First, it does tell you where its going to hit and you probably have or seen an argument like "its too easy".

But that argument isnt fully thought through. Keep this in mind as we go: games are designed with what the devs know you have at your finger tips - this is why some people are against addons, is because it let players play better so devs made harder gameplay but if you didnt use the addon now its unreasonably balanced.

(Except dont use that argument here because I'm saying dev supplied :P)

Ok with aoe markers you can predict enemy location by placing the aoe down in front of you and calculating the time it will take for the enemy to get to you or to whatever location (adding strategy).

Also this means that faster enemy monsters can get out of your aoe zone because you didnt aim right.

You may be more effective and hit multiple monsters this way as well.

Now that the dev knows you can do these strategic actions they will (or should) design content with that expectation in mind. So "its easy" is an inaccurate assertion unless you doubt Yoshida's competence..


The problems I do see is that some people dont like high action combat (because yes "auto lock Firaballs" is the easy stuff, not self targeting), or that the PS3 controller may be a pain to target with. Anyone that has used a marker targeting system on the PS3 speak up . FPS dont count because thats a reticle, need literal "marker" placement.

A thought for making it possible for ps3 users and or people who dont want to aim is that you can cast AoE spells on targets, where it would have a soft lock cursor if you mouse close to the monster or tab onto it will then lock on to the monster and change the aoe marker design to show that its a locked aoe - this means whever that target goes your aoe will pop off. In this way it is a little easier but the most effective combatant would mix it up between these two systems, meaning its still more difficult then before (also this takes away the option of making some spells AoE autolocks like some homing Fire ball but then making others aoe non lock like a giant ice comet).

I hate to add the "everyone is doing it" reason, but .. its true - SE combat system is behind and unless they plan on making it more of a social MMORPG then they should probably beef their combat flexibility and potential.


TL;DR - markers add higher accuracy and allow you to take actions in advance due to predictions, greater variance in abilities*, and it also allows monsters more freedom in their behaviors (extra room for AI).


*If someone could reply about the PS3, that'd help.. lol If you have to add markerplacement with auto target option then the benefit of ability variance goes down - still have better accuracy, being able to predict movements and allowing monsters more freedom though.

[Lady]

I get the idea that these would be useful, but there's the old school part of me that doesn't like it.

Maybe I'm getting old and this fresh new idea frightens me XD

[Shougun]

I get the idea that these would be useful, but there's the old school part of me that doesn't like it.

Maybe I'm getting old and this fresh new idea frightens me XD

Lol Well some people just dont want to bother with it - which I guess if thats the majority of SE target audience.. then its a good choice not to do. I dont think SE target audience is that way, but obviously all I got is a feeling lol - I dont have magic powers... at least for this.. ^_^;

But having used aoe markers a lot I feel SE system is very archaic and less strategic.

(But like I said some people just dont want to care about it, like I suck at a lot of RTS games because I dont want to manage all the little guys - but the truth is that is a big part of the strategy and so in that audience if you didnt have that feature you'd be making a bad choice).

[Orophin]

"My immersion"

But I am curious to whether there will be a visible marker to show how large of an area your AoE spells will hit. In 1.0 you just kinda had to do it all by feel.

[Shougun]

"My immersion"

But I am curious to whether there will be a visible marker to show how large of an area your AoE spells will hit. In 1.0 you just kinda had to do it all by feel.

If we were in a hardcore game I'd say it should make you have to place the spell but you don't get a visual helper lol - like in Dark Souls. (Not that the big targeting lock on arrow in 1.0 or the circle in 2.0 is very immersive either :P)

But I dont think the audience is honestly that hardcore, and you can reduce the immersion interference by not making it so obnoxious like a lot of games do.

[LlenCoram]

I'd be ok with this as long as it doesn't reach the same levels that GW2 does. Circles everywhere.

The game becomes Stay Out Of The Circle really early on.

[Shougun]

I'd be ok with this as long as it doesn't reach the same levels that GW2 does. Circles everywhere.

The game becomes Stay Out Of The Circle really early on.

Agreed! I think some visual cues for -some- spells is great like if Garuda is starting a big aoe attack around her the wind starts picking up in that radius and you can see the build up and roughly where its -not- building up.

Or if there is a meteor coming to you, you can see the shadow and guess where it wont be (having to keep in mind the shadow will grow larger quickly so you see the epicenter and guess from there).

[Lady]

Agreed! I think some visual cues for -some- spells is great like if Garuda is starting a big aoe attack around her the wind starts picking up in that radius and you can see the build up and roughly where its -not- building up.

Or if there is a meteor coming to you, you can see the shadow and guess where it wont be (having to keep in mind the shadow will grow larger quickly so you see the epicenter and guess from there).

See that way I like the idea. An incoming AoE attack, I'd love to see where its going to land. (Like the cracks in the Ifrit Fight) But my spells, I dunno if I'd want that or not.

[Enma]

Some time ago, it was said Yoshi-P will look into implementing something similar, BUT there is nothing sure.

[Shougun]

Some time ago, it was said Yoshi-P will look into implementing something similar, BUT there is nothing sure.

That would be very exciting! Cant say how many times I've played more strategy in my mind then I could actually use.. lol

He's definitely got a lot to do - that and he is in crunch time.. poor Yoshida*

/cheer

*Just because he has a lot to do doesnt mean there can be lower standards, SE cant afford to fail again - "FFXIV 3.0" is just going to make the world laugh. (Not saying add this or fail though.. lol they can go forward without it, but it would definitely be backwards compared to most mmo's).

Edit: By can't afford I mean no one is going to let them redeem that number again (3.0), it'll just be a naughty mark on their record hurting their forward momentum and hall of titles - but SE itself still has money to carry on lol.