A mounts matter

[Shougun]

Ever seen artwork of mounted mages? Most either have plain mounts, mounts without saddles, or supernatural creatures. It's part of the motif, and if a player wants to go for that, prior to mount speed normalization you could not.

Again a problem with people and consequences "I cant handle consequence, remove it for me". I detest this and will always detest it. Though also again, I dont know why the Dev would make a heavily armored creature faster then one that is not.. lol

You missed the point. You replied to the part of the post mentioning how everyone would go for the best and look exactly the same. You tried to rebut it using jobs as an example for some reason. I'm telling you you can't compare jobs to mounts, though the person you quoted has a good point.

Missed no point. Each mount could have application and no point would be designed to be undesirable, just different. Since I dont think Yoshida is going to do tiers of mounts you wont have power creep either like you had in WoW. So just like jobs which each have their own style so too could mounts as I listed. No point missed, dont be silly.

Given enough time, people WILL look exactly the same by stacking the same stats and most likely going for the same gear. Hence the Scorpion Harness and Haubergeon armies in FFXI.

And you were looking for a rainbow of colors? I think its quite ok for people to use the same gear, there is no reason everyone must have snowflake gear- that is illogical. Though both in FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 the copy cat gear was actually fairly low. For FFXIV thanks to materia system making people use old item models and for FFXI (until recently) they designed a lot of their gear to be compare-able and thus it started to become up to choice (a little).

The developers choosing to not urinate on player choice doesn't fall under childish.

Except they haven't, or didn't (given the hypothetical) 'not everything is the same'. I'd argue devs are pissing on players by taking away choice and true individuality, true being that you made the choice to be different and it mattered not oh willy nilly nothing matters decisions.

You're failing to recognize that people tend to flock to the "best" formulas and set ups and gear schemes regardless of what the activity is. Mounts with stats would be no different because if polka-dot Chocobo turns out to be the fastest, has highest carrying capacity, can dig the deepest and can make a mean turkey and tomato sandwich, everyone and their mother is going to use polka-dot Chocobo and ignore every other mount in the game.

The devs should conside why this mount is surpassing all other mounts and possibly buff or nerf one of them depending on reasoning.

Simplified, as I need to get to bed soon:

RPGs are built on a story with a beginning and end. They also are limited to systems that more often than not are not real time (in before Rogue Galaxy, FFXII and The Last Story). You also have complete control over progression and almost all elements within your group. You could do a run of FFVI with just Edgar, Celes, Gau and Cyan and no one would be the wiser over you leaving out the rest of the cast. You could do a 4 WHM run in FFI and no one would care.

MMORPGs are built on persisting worlds and require that you be a lot more inclusive. You're not in control of everything that goes on because you have 3/7/23 other people you are counting on to get things done. Likewise, mechanics are different and player input in battles is also very different (yes, this does include moving out of the fire, stun/interrupt rotations and preventative healing). Best of all, you have to respect the choices of the other players (outside of odd cases of mob mentality. See: Final Fantasy XI).

Hardly a difference from some rpgs I've played solo 'control on everything'. The difference is you have to rely on other people (or at least can) - but that really doesnt mean 'vanity' all around.

Looking like a mismatched clown is anti-RPG. Character appearance for the most part doesn't change in console RPGs. All vanity slots do is mimic what console RPGs have been doing since Final Fantasy I.

First it doesnt. Because in those games there was one supension of disbielf broken, what you wore never changed. In vanity two are broken, because what is worn and what is can not be what is worn and what is. Second, read later I have something extra lol.

The asinine real world comparison comes out. Not surprised. Let me break it to you: People play fantasy games to escape the bounds of reality. Even moreso in alternate world games like MMORPGs.

If you want constant consequences to your actions, go log on to Real Life. Or play KOTOR.

People play games to live other lives (/'moments'), thats were that statement MUST stop. Its not to play the unreal or play flying pixies and solar dragons (but it can be, obviously lol). Most games require acknowledgement to a suspension of disbilef and proper troting around it to ensure it happens, -specially- in an MMORPG were you are living a 'second life'.

Ok now to add that bit about vanity. Vanity slots as, I think you suggested (free slots to cover other slots), is anti rpg specially in FFXIV. This is because precedence has shown that gear matters and gear is represented as it matters.

However I was playing the idea through my head under a real rpg sense and I figured you could easily add vanity slots so long as you could explain it (which with what people normally suggest is usually a bit nonsense).

So.. I thought if you could create a potion as an alchemist that would make an item be an illusion of another item through magical properties.. well then it can make sense. You could make a second type of potion that worked in PvP but wore off after death or time perhaps even letting you wield a weapon you cant wield (making it a less popular / expensive and tactical choice). I also thought they could introduce an illusionist class/job - who could perhaps cast a buff that increased dodge chance and made you foggy looking to the enemy (illusion taken to the next level), having a class use illusion magic would really nail in the idea of illusions and I think even hardcore rpg fans wouldn't mind because it could be explained rather then 'fashionista magic'.

Still I am heavily against making everything the same (like mounts) just so people can play fashion. A turtle going as fast as a chocobo means either the turtle is god or your chocobo is a bad chocobo- since neither should be true, the turtle shouldn't be faster.

I'll try to be careful in my usage of words to strafe around "vanity" so we stop talking about unrelated things here, but you can create another thread if you want and Ill go there.. perhaps further the rpg element of the vanity system (which I'm not sure why it took so long for me to think of -I apologize for that, I would support a system so long as it can maintain rpg elements).

[Zantetsuken]

The true variety in mounts will be in the Chocobo breeding/raising system. Chocobo will be bred for increased speed, digging, item carrying capacity, battle skills and many other abilities. If you want variety of ability, for mounts, this will be the avenue for it.

It appears that all other mounts will be functionally identical to each other. They will just be in the game for looks/vanity. (much like Goobbue is now)

[Shougun]

The true variety in mounts will be in the chocobo breeding/raising system. I'm sure chocos will be bred for speed, digging, item carrying capacity, battle skills and many other abilities. If you want variety of ability, focus on Chocobo breeding.

It appears that all other mounts will be functionally identical to each other. They will just be in the game for looks. (much like Goobbue is now)

I hope that we can do as you said lol - and either way I plan to go ape shit on chocobo breeding XD

As soon as I can get a shack I'm going to load it up with way too many chocobos and demand babies. I'll put a cute sign that says "~*lil choco'sweat shop*~" and refuse any animal rights activists entry.

I think that the gear for chocobos will also make great variety - its seriously a system I'm drooling over, at least how it sounds. +1 for wishing it to be true.. lol


And yeah Yoshida confirmed that the /other/ mounts will behave the exact same. Which is what this thread is about, making all mounts unique. Crucial to understand I mean unique and not suck or phase out.

So long as Yoshida doesn't make tiers or at least buffs old mounts at the same time then you can easily maintain a list of compare-ables (not all mounts need to be super different, but say a goobbue has a higher top speed then magitek but magitek uses hydraulics to get a better starting run, or something like that, where the differences are noticeable yet not "THIS ONE IS WAAAY BETTA", the speed difference between the chocobo and those two would be out classed by the fact those two would hardly ever get lamed and you'd likely die first (and not from being lamed)).

Though I wouldnt be disappointed to see a gold / black chocobo rock the socks of normal mounts, as they should (if they are rare, color may be nothing important in 2.0). lol

[Linkurrra]

Hardly what I suggested is Nascar :P

And those variables are very simple to implement - the math is highschool. Though if their movement system itself isnt very flexible.. that would make it a lot harder XD

I find all mounts the same a very boring - also mounts at least since he is looking hard at WoW would be released in tiers such that there isnt always "one mount". Because last I checked in WoW there is a huge variety of mounts being used and they have unique stats.



Bill the pony?!

It's not a matter of what you suggested. It's what ppl will do with it *IF* it is implemented.
Mounts of different speeds just cause problems in parties trying to stay together when moving from one location to another.
If you add combat stats to them, variety goes out the window because everybody is getting mounts based on stats not what they look like! So everybody will strive to get the so called "best" one.

So in the end it's best if they preform exactly the same. You can differentiate mounts by looks, style, and animation.
Animation being, horses neigh and chocobo's KWEH! when you hit a special key standing still etc. You could also make them do special emotes unique to the mount. Like /feed makes a chocobo peck at the ground, or /strut makes them scratch the ground in place with their feet.

I liked how XI handled it where all mounts were the same except rented vs. owned. Owned of course were a bit faster.

Then there was the Chocobo riding gear that made the riding time for your chocobo longer! This gear could also let you run faster! Or special gear will allow you to dig with your chocobo! The same could be done for any mount.

Lastly, we have chocobo raising. This will probably add a whole host of features for chocobo's. Which probably include the speed that Shougun is looking for. With the amount of work that you will need to put into a chocobo to raise it to be of a certain speed. the difference would definitely be earned! I was quite proud of my green chocobo in XI! PITA, to do! but the sense of achievement was awesome!

[Shougun]

It's not a matter of what you suggested. It's what ppl will do with it *IF* it is implemented.
Mounts of different speeds just cause problems in parties trying to stay together when moving from one location to another.
If you add combat stats to them, variety goes out the window because everybody is getting mounts based on stats not what they look like! So everybody will strive to get the so called "best" one.

So in the end it's best if they preform exactly the same. You can differentiate mounts by looks, style, and animation.
Animation being, horses neigh and chocobo's KWEH! when you hit a special key standing still etc. You could also make them do special emotes unique to the mount. Like /feed makes a chocobo peck at the ground, or /strut makes them scratch the ground in place with their feet.

I liked how XI handled it where all mounts were the same except rented vs. owned. Owned of course were a bit faster.

Then there was the Chocobo riding gear that made the riding time for your chocobo longer! This gear could also let you run faster! Or special gear will allow you to dig with your chocobo! The same could be done for any mount.

Lastly, we have chocobo raising. This will probably add a whole host of features for chocobo's. Which probably include the speed that Shougun is looking for. With the amount of work that you will need to put into a chocobo to raise it to be of a certain speed. the difference would definitely be earned! I was quite proud of my green chocobo in XI! PITA, to do! but the sense of achievement was awesome!

Its why I listed a few variables actually, I figured some people may pick the fastest if thats the only stat like in WoW. Although in WoW people often rode their favorites anyways lol.

So for example a mount has the highest max speed but a slower acceleration, or high of both and higher chance of being lamed (unarmored horse). Certainly some mounts may become particular to certain situations, but as they should. Armored mounts when going into an area where you will be under constant fire- that is how it should be. Go in with a naked mount and boom your dead lol. However you may be able to let other players go in with say a magitek while you go in with a zippy choco (or you are just a good weaver and you can dodge all the monsters hits).

I can imagine it would both increase and decrease diversity. If done properly it would be at a meaningless point to qualify and all that is left is the fact that now mounts have their own characteristics rather then silly 'coeurl is as slow as a goobbue as fast as a chocobo'.

Its a dangerous game I admit, but one I feel is worth playing - specially with chocobos appearing to be so featured (I'd prefer to see no other mounts if they arent going to be poised in a logical manor, just have an awesome chocobo system). Allowing /other/ mounts to be featured a little can also let chocobos have more leeway in the matter of what can be modified / raised out of them.

[Lady]

In FFVII the purpose in breeding chocobos was to get chocobos that had different abilities, so the idea of mounts having different stats/skills is not something unheard of in the FF series.

[Kirito]

The true variety in mounts will be in the Chocobo breeding/raising system. Chocobo will be bred for increased speed, digging, item carrying capacity, battle skills and many other abilities. If you want variety of ability, for mounts, this will be the avenue for it.

It appears that all other mounts will be functionally identical to each other. They will just be in the game for looks/vanity. (much like Goobbue is now)

We shouldn't forget that those mounts also have custom music pieces...

[Shougun]

We shouldn't forget that those mounts also have custom music pieces...

:O that was confirmed for all the other mounts?!

I knew they were considering some sort of juke box / controlling the music. Didnt know they actually planned it for all.

I actually like the rental chocobo music and goobbue - the personal chocobo is great for a little while and then you just dont want to hear it anymore..(imo) lol

[Kirito]

:O that was confirmed for all the other mounts?!

I knew they were considering some sort of juke box / controlling the music. Didnt know they actually planned it for all.

I actually like the rental chocobo music and goobbue - the personal chocobo is great for a little while and then you just dont want to hear it anymore..(imo) lol

Sorry not sure if it was confirmed but it just makes sense for each mount to have there own music...

[Shurrikhan]

As it stands, there really isn't more than a vanity's worth of marginal difference really possible for mounts. Assuming we can even vary in terms of speed vs. treasure-hunting ability vs. mount inventory capacity, these will still be totally individual decisions based primarily on a player's grinding preferences. For a simple example, Gatherers with short log-in times will want the increased treasure-hunting ability so they can make a quick gathering sweep without having to think about node probability or routes. Those who have figured out the routes can take the little extra time with reduced treasure-hunting ability, but return to town less often with a increased inventory capacity. Those specializing in hunting truly rare, distant items, and know how and where to find them will go with the increased speed. Quest-levelers will probably go for increased capacity unless they want to be able to easily find treasure while in the course of hub-hopping. Vendor-all-but-my-best-equipment guys will go for speed. And that, for better or worse, fits the style of the game thus far.

We don't have any active sprint functions, and none at all for our mount. Our jump is non-variable. We don't have mount endurance mechanics. They don't have pain tolerance variables (to avoid bucking). Any armor they get will likely be more stat-based than anything actually useful to a cavalry rush. It does not appear that we will be doing any dual-mounted/unmounted divisional strikes on Imperial camps or armies in the near future. [Ahh, jeesh, just imagine the supply-stealing [via treasure finding], active event item-weight mount carrying capacity [based on what would normally be slot-based carrying capacity], the decoy running [using the speediest chocos], the trampling, the Chocobos tanking or making charge rushes while their riders are dismounted and supporting/leading the attacks... Seems I've gotten carried away.]

Edit: Even if we did say... have horses, chocobos, and Goobues all together, it'd still be best to keep them reasonable, while still able to do different things, but as it stands, we don't really have anywhere where say... the differences in jump would be different enough or fun enough to be worth the loss to sprint speed. And what the heck would a Goobue be able to do in most situations? If it could somehow hurdle on those tiny legs, it'd only go all of four feet. Maybe an automatic step-over of small objects? Outside of combat (where it could be truly terrifying...) it's not going to add up to the other two except in carrying capacity.

Let's take a ravine setting, a race course of sorts meant to test the three, with giant, mount-passable vines spanning the sides in a low-sloping diagonal fashion, and various shelves of ground at odd angles protruding from bottom and sides of the chasm. Some of these features start from ground level, others do not. Some non-ground-lying ones can be reached with a horizontal jump of enough speed; others require a high vertical leap. The wind is slightly stronger above, giving a slight speed bonus. There are occasional remains of rock-slides blocking the bottom that can be difficult for horses especially to get over. There are occasional blocked paths in the sides of the ravine that Goobues can break through if large enough. They provide slight shortcuts.

In such a situation, the different mounts would be enjoyable diverse, but normally they'd probably just be picked based the region's verticality/passability and the users' combat entry/withdrawal tactics. In these cases, the horse and Goobue would have to have at least some small amount of combat ability, and they can still be plenty distinct in that regard. In short, a Chocobo would work damn well for an archer who wants to simply jump up above his prey with little forethought and start sniping (as long as the extra range the mob must take does not take it out of its domain). A horse would work better for someone who sticks to the roads anyways. And a Goobue... well... carrying capacity, and maybe a special to stun things and lumber away...

I think I've accidentally given a lot of fun reasons for having these different mount types instead of pressing their implausibility. Oh well, take it as you like.