SE stop doing the "norm"

[Kallera]

Fyi, the quest markers are going to be the perfect solution. The people that don't want to waste time on scavenger hunts or looking stuff up on fansites are going to turn it on and get their s**t done. The people that like the challenge and don't want help can just turn it off and do it that way.

You are being blind to the social response. Have variety in the designing of the quests, and we wont have this separation.

[Wolfie]

You are being blind to the social response. Have variety in the designing of the quests, and we wont have this separation.

You don't know what variety there's going to be because you've only seen like half a dozen quests.

[Kallera]

You don't know what variety there's going to be because you've only seen like half a dozen quests.

So have you, what's your point? Your solution isn't one. The fetch quest in the starter area has a much a place as the AF coffer key quest in a beastman stronghold. There even more you can do, since quests in 14 can also include quest mobs ("escape from cell" guildleves, faction guildleves) and changing ??? Points ("necrologos" guildleves). 11 to a lesser extent had these too.

Leaving it in the player's hands isn't going to work anymore than the agro marker in 1.0. What was once a debatable thing ended up changing gameplay to suit the new system, you wouldn't go without your choice anymore than you would a specific WoW raid without the needed add ons.

[Wolfie]

So have you, what's your point? Your solution isn't one. The fetch quest in the starter area has a much a place as the AF coffer key quest in a beastman stronghold. There even more you can do, since quests in 14 can also include quest mobs ("escape from cell" guildleves, faction guildleves) and changing ??? Points ("necrologos" guildleves). 11 to a lesser extent had these too.

Leaving it in the player's hands isn't going to work anymore than the agro marker in 1.0. What was once a debatable thing ended up changing gameplay to suit the new system, you wouldn't go without your choice anymore than you would a specific WoW raid without the needed add ons.

Quest markers aren't a solution to good quests vs simple quests, I don't know why you brought that up. It's a solution for unclear quest directions, for people who don't want to run around like headless chickens or be forced to look up information on fansites, that does not impact people that like having unclear quest directions.

It has no bearing on how fun or difficult quests are, as WOW can absolutely demonstrate that if you broaden your scope a bit*. If the game designers don't want to make quests that aren't simple fetch or kill quests, it's all on them. Not having quest markers is not going to make your no-lore 5 minute fetch quests more fun than the alternative. If the designers design fun quests, they'll be fun whether you use quest helper or not.

And agro meter is a whole 'nother beast that is not comparable, so please don't bring it up.

*WOW quests consist of only a single task. Quest chains consist of multiple quests in sequence, and you cannot do one before completing its predecessor. An isolated WOW quest is typically 'bland' (not always the case) and short (but not always easy), with very minor monetary and experience rewards. A quest chain is directly comparable to FFXI-style quests in that you have complete several to a dozen tasks before you received your ultimate reward, typically an item or skill.

[Kallera]

It is a tool to use for a time and a place. I have no problem with various markers on the minimap. I have a bigger problem with many of them all over my screen as some sort of tacky arrow. I am not certain with names of them being in the screen, especially If it is for something I am supposed to be searching for, having the words "treasure coffer" or "excavation point" give away the location of a chest or a point that was knowingly positioned behind a feature (such as a altar) is simply one aspect of game design interfering with another.

[Wolfie]

It is a tool to use for a time and a place. I have no problem with various markers on the minimap. I have a bigger problem with many of them all over my screen as some sort of tacky arrow. I am not certain with names of them being in the screen, especially If it is for something I am supposed to be searching for, having the words "treasure coffer" or "excavation point" give away the location of a chest or a point that was knowingly positioned behind a feature (such as a altar) is simply one aspect of game design interfering with another.

And if it's optional, like I said in my first post from which you derived this whole argument?

Wait, my deja vu senses are tingling. I had this same conversation the other day. Are you the same a*****e who wasn't satisfied with challenging himself by turning off optional helpers and felt the need to dictate gaming preferences for everyone else too?

Do not have that decision in the hands of the player, and it would. *Otherwise everyone and their mother will demand it to be on,players as a whole tend to demand the path of least resistance from each other.

*

So we reached the conclusion of your argument.

You don't care about your experience, you care about everyone elses' and want to have it be patently worse off for the people who disagree with your vision.

Yes, you are.

I really need to put you on ignore before I get an aneurysm.

[Kallera]

And if it's optional, like I said in my first post from which you derived this whole argument?

My point is that the developers must make the decision on their end, not the players, as they are the ones developing the quests. I would rather their options be kept open, as in have different pointers for a spot or a area to search in instead of the exact spot each and every time. so that the quests that require it are more an adventure and less like being guided with a GPS intruding on my windshield.