Yoshi suggests playing WOW for a year

[Zehira]

Aww, you two no fighting please. :3
I agree with you about the community in XI, they can be a dick. That's why I prefer to play with casual players than dull ass hardcore players who know everything. Conversation is the key to keep me enjoying the game no matter we win or lose.

I miss FFXI back in 2003 where we all were noobs and had some good laughs.

[Kallera]

i was a Dragoon before abyssea and i have no idea what your on about. PLD/75 SAM/75 and DRG/67 were my three highest classes when i quit the game shortly after WoTG. not liking where the game was heading was one of my biggest reasons for leaving.

not all experiences are the same, ive heard that odin an ifrit were some of the worst servers community wise and very elitist.

XI was elitist out of necessity you either sucked or you didn't, people were more than happy to show you the ropes and if you did good invite you to an SEA/SKY/DYN LS, having the best possible gear actually meant something in XI and wasn't just a status symbol.

XiV is elitist by community, where your either Kissing your LS leaders ass or you find yourself out of the loop, hardly anyone will take time out of there little Clik for the new guy show him what needs to be done and for some odd reason people are obsessed with having only the best possible geared players for stats that have minimal returns.

XiV didn't have to be that Way, it was made that Way.

Um, no. I had the exact opposite experience. And I was in Phoenix server playing as red mage and thief as my main jobs. The best possible gear was very much a status symbol, people put them in their lfg comments as advertising for both parties and linkshell invites.

And as far as kissing the ls leaders ass for content... there was a lot more chance for groups to form in xiv than xi. If you didn't get in the rush of pt lines finishing quests after an ffxi update, you were left with sitting for hours waiting for a pick up group, or hours more for that one whm that needs it. Dont get me started on the endgame community, which advocated 3rd party programs, and became 2am shouting matches with ls leaders thinking they were drill sergeants.

[Morticous]

Um, no. I had the exact opposite experience. And I was in Phoenix server playing as red mage and thief as my main jobs. The best possible gear was very much a status symbol, people put them in their lfg comments as advertising for both parties and linkshell invites.

And as far as kissing the ls leaders ass for content... there was a lot more chance for groups to form in xiv than xi. If you didn't get in the rush of pt lines finishing quests after an ffxi update, you were left with sitting for hours waiting for a pick up group, or hours more for that one whm that needs it. Dont get me started on the endgame community, which advocated 3rd party programs, and became 2am shouting matches with ls leaders thinking they were drill sergeants.

I was on Phoenix, but I don't remember it always being this drastic.

[Kallera]

I was on Phoenix, but I don't remember it always being this drastic.

Al zhabi wasn't on fire every week. But some LSes were outright ridiculous.

[Forgo]

I played wow before i don't plan to go back..its like...cheese!

[Reika]

Just from the new features mentioned, I think the levels already been exeeded

[Maxthunder]

You seem awfully sure of yourself.

Have you played the game? Do you actually *know* how they've approached it? Have you been in design meetings or somehow privy to what they're doing?

Or, are you just hoping out loud, expressing what you hope it will be, or wont' be?

Are you trying to convince yourself, or us?

The more I learn about ARR, the more remarks I see Yoshi make about its gameplay and the way they're integrating things, the more concerned I become that they actually are making more like a WoW clone than not like one. However, that remains a concern because unlike you, Nox, I don't have a crystal ball allowing me to declare exactly what ARR will and won't be, nor the arrogance to believe I can divine it either way.

As for the remark made in another post about "SE doing the best thing by copying the most successful MMORPG out there, WoW"... that line of thinking has gottne a number of other MMO devs into trouble because they tried to do the same thing. With very few exceptions, the response from players has been "yeah... no. If we wanted to play WoW, we'd just play WoW".

I could understand the first several MMOs to come out in 2 or 3 years following WoW's release to fall into that trap since they only had WoW's success to go on. But you'd think that after that first wave of "us too" MMOs came out and performed underwhelmingly, that developers (and even investors and bean counters) would begin to see that, while it sounds great on paper, "copying WoW" isn't necessarily the best approach.

The only P2P MMO I can think of that has been heavily influenced by WoW and has managed to hold its own with a healthy subscriber base is Rift. All the others have either been reduced to insignificance, have gone the "f2P to save our asses" route, or closed up altogether.

In the meantime, the industry is slowly but steadily beginning to realize that relying on the WoW model of "quick progression through content-centric gameplay" is not sustainable anymore. Not in this time when people expect to be level cap in a week no matter how many levels there are, or how much other content there is up to that point. Content that takes a developer months to create will be completed in days, sometimes hours by gamers upon its release.

It's being realized, now, that for a MMO to maintain a sustainable flow of gameplay for players in the long-term, it has to have more "game systems" where the players become part of the content... and not just "content created by the developers/designers". That could be PvP, it could be housing or any kind of player/community-driven activity. It can be a political territory control system, etc.

It doesn't have to be a sandbox, but it does need a meaningful impact on the game and its players (in the context of the game world, etc). Grinding raids and instances for points to buy gear with is not a "system"... it's content designed to keep people playing "just a bit longer". It's not a system designed to keep people entertained indefinitely.

The goal is to have people playing the game continuously out of enjoyment for the gameplay itself. It should never be based on "how many carrots can we dangle in front of players and how long can we keep stringing them along, before they get sick of it?"

So, while I hope - sincerely hope - that I'm wrong, I'm beginning to get a really bad feeling about ARR. I think Yoshi might be swinging too far in the other direction, based on what he's revealed, and various "one off" remarks he's made in interviews and articles.

Just my two gil's worth.

OMG finally someone understands!!! You hit the nail on the head!!

[Maxthunder]

Yoshi has 20 years of Final Fantasy titles to use as a reference. Now there are systems in each of those games that could be used, could be improved upon useing systems from others games (other than minor tweeks). Yoshi is taking the easy route. Back in the day SE, squaresoft etc had the ability to make systems that work as well as creative. So the question is have they lost their creativity? Will they just look at other games and use those systems w/o putting much effort into makeing them thier own with major improvements on those systems? To be completely honest is Yoshi up to the challenge to make xiv so that it dosent lean to far left or right but is balance between the 2 or shall we say the difference player types?

[Seirra_Lanzce]

Yoshi has 20 years of Final Fantasy titles to use as a reference. Now there are systems in each of those games that could be used, could be improved upon useing systems from others games (other than minor tweeks). Yoshi is taking the easy route. Back in the day SE, squaresoft etc had the ability to make systems that work as well as creative. So the question is have they lost their creativity? Will they just look at other games and use those systems w/o putting much effort into makeing them thier own with major improvements on those systems? To be completely honest is Yoshi up to the challenge to make xiv so that it dosent lean to far left or right but is balance between the 2 or shall we say the difference player types?

they kind of did improve the feature a lot, is not that easy sometime, is best to start it at first and continue to improve it.