The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

[Kilta_Firelotus]

pang pot meet kettle ... they are doing as much as you asume I'm doing
infact they are doing it worst.

I got time ti play a game. I just don;t want to key skrewed over in not able about to do content because there is not enough players doung said content.
please for the love of w/e understand that

[Kilta_Firelotus]

and also lay off my post count and the fact im not playing yoyur no better, least i;m nor screaming ffxiv sucks 24/7 or ticking off a player base with an onvious flame thread.
I'm peeved because all ppl care about are petty assumptions. The sucker punch a person with trivial bs. like post counts.
really you gonna slander me cuz of a flippin post count...

[Kilta_Firelotus]

fyi what the "hardcore" what is entitlement to similar content that is a big reason why ffxi is loosing subs becareful what you ask for you might just get it, and it might not have the happy ending you want.

[IndigoDarkwolf]

XI's developers are actively seeking input about their game from their community, much the same way XIV developers do. It is not necessary to draw comparisons between these games in every third sentence.

It does seem that there are a lot of FFXI players on these forums who really want XIV to actually be "XI-2", with all the same systems and mechanics from XI, plus or minus tweaks.

Myself, as I stated before, I just want to be able to play with my friends. To be able to do something useful for them without having to climb the level ladder all the way to the very end just to join them.

I don't think this is impossible to achieve, either. We could take a lesson from one of the most hardcore modern MMOs out there: Eve Online. A new player can spawn with enough skills to do something useful to people who've been playing for over 5 years. Okay, tackling is dangerous, but it also requires so little in the way of resources that the older players usually just go ahead and provide everything the newbies need. It gives newbies a way to become involved in the endgame right away, but investing time and energy in the game still has very obvious benefits. That seems to be what the devs of any MMO should ultimately strive for, right? I mean, isn't the endgame the most important part of player retention in an MMO anyways? Why would we want to deny that to players who can't invest the same amount of time into the game as their friends?

I'm not saying I want a fantasy version of Eve Online, I'm just suggesting even while it's a vastly different MMO than FFXIV will ever be, there might be lessons to learn about reconciling hardcore players and casuals, so that each can enjoy the game in their own way.

I wonder what lessons the devs are taking from FFXI, to either embrace in the future or avoid at all costs.

[Peregrine]

Hardcore players don't care how difficult the content is. They don't want 85% of players to do it at all. The only way they like what they're wearing is if no one else is.

In the past the MMO base has tolerated them because the gear was something to look forward to getting. Over time though, they've learned that all the hardcores really want is someone to look down on to feel better about themselves, and the only systems that let them feel better about themselves are pieces of **** entertainment that cater to elitism and job whoring. That's why the genre's picking the hardcores off one by one. We've had enough of this idiocy and know it'll never work.

You can put the hardest mob in an instance, with the lowest drop rate... and they'll still whine because they can't keep people from trying to kill it and have no control over who gets to wear "their" gear. And if you do that, they're not going to be the players wearing that gear.

The masses will find a way to win at content they can freely get at, no matter how challenging. Where the masses fail, is in trifling, demeaning hardcore suppression tactics like "only 5 archers and a thaumaturge tank shall pass."

That is the content they really love. The kind of pointless weedout where only their deemed "worthy" pass through it. Then they have nothing but archers and thaumaturges to choose from on the other side, and everything's easy once you get that.

It's time to just put them out of their misery and end the charade that this was ever even a debate. Every single activity in the game, every single reward, should be obtainable just playing windows of 6-9pm. Every last one. No one deserves higher quality gear for playing more than that. They just deserve more of the same quality.

Put CHALLENGING content with great reward in ACCESSABLE venues. Leave it at that. Again, the hardcore versus casual debate is a charade. Hardcores will be playing what the casuals say will be or there will be no game.

The biggest lie a hardcore ever tells themselves is that they're rare.
Because it's a lie that they're rare, any mechanism that makes them appear rare is broken. Ultra rare drops. Super lockdown spawn rates. Monopolizables. All poor entertainment forms that make common players believe they're more special than they really are.

They want to be Cloud. They're barely Biggs in reality. Biggs may be able to scrape dirt out from between tile with a toothpick for 8 hours a day, and Biggs may claim that the reward he gets for doing it makes him look like Cloud, but we all know the truth.

He's still Biggs.

[Abriael]

By robbing the hardcore players of challenging content, you are limiting their ability to enjoy the game.

Too bad that "challenging" has nothing to do with timesinks, or with making anything inaccessible to casual players.

Mind you, no one is "robbing" anyone of anything. Hardcore gamers don't have special rights or special domains. Everyone pays the same for the same game, and for the same content.

I continue to find it extremely funny how some self-elected hardcore talk about entitlement issues, while they quite obviously have the biggest entitlement issue of them all.

[Felis]

So a 'Casual' could still be better than a 'Hardcore' player? Whaat?


From what I understand, a 'Casual' player was someone who spent low amounts of time playing a game (30 minutes - 2 hours) generally slow progression, not looking to do hard content, etc.

Hardcore players playing generally longer, spend more time trying to complete hard content, etc.

Here is a shocking thuth for you.
There are people who playing for 12 or more hours the day and sucks. And there are people who playing only 3 or 4 hours the day and know their skills.

time is not quality

[Shneibel]

Here is a shocking thuth for you.
There are people who playing for 12 or more hours the day and sucks. And there are people who playing only 3 or 4 hours the day and know their skills.

time is not quality

your statement is not completerly true to ppl with standard IQ, although it does apply to the player with IQ below 80. So I do not fully agree with this

[derekx]

Hardcore players don't care how difficult the content is. They don't want 85% of players to do it at all. The only way they like what they're wearing is if no one else is.

In the past the MMO base has tolerated them because the gear was something to look forward to getting. Over time though, they've learned that all the hardcores really want is someone to look down on to feel better about themselves, and the only systems that let them feel better about themselves are pieces of **** entertainment that cater to elitism and job whoring. That's why the genre's picking the hardcores off one by one. We've had enough of this idiocy and know it'll never work.

You can put the hardest mob in an instance, with the lowest drop rate... and they'll still whine because they can't keep people from trying to kill it and have no control over who gets to wear "their" gear. And if you do that, they're not going to be the players wearing that gear.

The masses will find a way to win at content they can freely get at, no matter how challenging. Where the masses fail, is in trifling, demeaning hardcore suppression tactics like "only 5 archers and a thaumaturge tank shall pass."

That is the content they really love. The kind of pointless weedout where only their deemed "worthy" pass through it. Then they have nothing but archers and thaumaturges to choose from on the other side, and everything's easy once you get that.

It's time to just put them out of their misery and end the charade that this was ever even a debate. Every single activity in the game, every single reward, should be obtainable just playing windows of 6-9pm. Every last one. No one deserves higher quality gear for playing more than that. They just deserve more of the same quality.

Put CHALLENGING content with great reward in ACCESSABLE venues. Leave it at that. Again, the hardcore versus casual debate is a charade. Hardcores will be playing what the casuals say will be or there will be no game.

The biggest lie a hardcore ever tells themselves is that they're rare.
Because it's a lie that they're rare, any mechanism that makes them appear rare is broken. Ultra rare drops. Super lockdown spawn rates. Monopolizables. All poor entertainment forms that make common players believe they're more special than they really are.

They want to be Cloud. They're barely Biggs in reality. Biggs may be able to scrape dirt out from between tile with a toothpick for 8 hours a day, and Biggs may claim that the reward he gets for doing it makes him look like Cloud, but we all know the truth.

He's still Biggs.

Good point and well said.

[Shika]

I don't even understand how this argument is still going.... 55 pages o.O

Can't everyone just agree that we all want more content and challenges in order to work towards the same end goals? "Hardcore" players will get there quicker than "Casual" gamers, but does that matter? Isn't that the point? And does that mean that "Casuals" should not have access to the same content regardless if they will complete it?

The title of this thread "The growing entitlement issues of the casuals" was obviously used to try and cause a huge rift and uproar from both sides of the gaming community, whereas at the end of the day people seem to be arguing around in circles while basically agreeing on the same things:

No-one wants things handed to them for nothing.
We all just want more "shineys" and more main questlines/content that we can put effort into (regardless of how many hours a day) so that we can all have a sense of achievement when we get there.
Nothing is black and white- you cannot lump all players into certain categories; everyone is different.
We all want to see the game improve over time (which I believe it will, and already has started to) and reach its potential- isn't that why we're all still here and passionate enough about the game to post on the forum? ^^