The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

[Mudd]

If hardcore players want tough content then instanced dungons with alternative hardmode versions should work out just fine.

But then we'll get a cool piece of armor as a reward that the casuals can't get and the cycle begins anew...

[Neptune]

Still going strong huh? What the hell is going on in here?

[TonyMontana]

But then we'll get a cool piece of armor as a reward that the casuals can't get and the cycle begins anew...

I gave a solution that wouldnt make SE have to devote more than 10% of their fighting developement to hardcore but with the solution hardcores could attain gear that was better than the softcore version but casuals who are skilled would have access to the hardcore gear as long as they had the skill to do the fights whats wrong with this solution? Isnt it a win / win / win solution for casuals/hardcores/SE?

[Kilta_Firelotus]

Maybe 10 percent of players fall under hardcore. Whats wrong with giving that 10 percent a small percentage of the games content to have fun with?

Read what I wrote and you'll see that I'm not asking for the whole game to be hard. It's not right or fair for us to ask that of SE, BUT its also not right for casual players to ask for total control of the games direction and rob it of challenging and possibly time consuming content meant for the more hardcore players.
Let 90-95 percent of the game be a cake walk, but let that last (NON-mandatory, but rewarding) 5-10 percent beat us until out faces melt off in anger.

no you just simply asking for seperate content which isn't fair. Not even to me and i'm a hard core. You limit ppl from any content, the less amount of ppl will beable to access that content. With limited ppl groups will be hard to come by. Do you get it? your also skrewing over some hardcores in the process.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

a win/win fotr me will me I can access the content to. And not be skrewed over due to the "hardcore" side being so small. I got skrewed over in ffxi when it came to content. I don;t want that to happen in ffxiv also.

the more ppl that can access any content, the more groups doing the content will be. If you have any % of limiting content (like in ffxi) ppl will end up quiting because they pay for a game to play 100% of that game. And if they can't why bother.

only you guys are making up false assumptions that casuals want it easy.

[Mudd]

no you just simply asking for seperate content which isn't fair.

I'm not asking for separate content, not in the sense that I feel you are stressing =V
If I were, I would have at least used the word somewhere..

I nowhere said that casual players could not participate in this content, not even did I say that it should most certainly take forever and that it would limit the amount of people capable of participating in it because of time constraints (though it quite possibly could, because with difficulty does usually come time consumption. I can give examples if I must).
I just want content meant to be hard as hell even if slight in amount.. but when it comes down to it, that usually requires TIME, whether to sharpen ones skills, or to complete the deed. You CAN play it as a casual player with not as much party experience, without the knowledge of how to use battle regimens, and a party of random pubs, said person and their rag tag party would probably have a lot of trouble completing it if at all while on the other side someone with a strong party ethic, extensive experience with battle regimens, vent/mumble/skype, and a party to match would probably be able to complete it with some challenge but complete it none the less. I don't see the problem in such a situation. So what? A casual player is confronted with CHALLENGE, a possibly unbeatable obstacle, there's nothing wrong with this because we can't keep stooping down to the lowest possible level...

This is the same problem we have in real life.. They coddle the underachievers to be proud of themselves no matter what, to feel as deserving as the next man, and its wrong. If you can't put in the work, you can't have it..
In this world, in the WORLD OF VIDEO GAMES, the casuals are the underachievers, regardless of circumstance =|
If they can have theirs in real life, let us have ours in the virtual world lol.

Maybe its a strong statement, but you can't tell me you don't understand me to an extent. Sure we are all equal, and human beings, but I don't deserve what my doctor has materialistically, because I didn't even complete highschool.. How do you think he would feel, knowing all of the effort hes put into schooling, to find that I had the same Porche he had and I didn't go to school for one day outside of highschool? (I don't have a porche =x)

It's ridiculous, bottom line.

I'm fine with content open to both parties, but in the end, the skill plain of the casual players and the hardcore players will be vastly different in most, MOST cases, and as such, the content might feel closed off to the casual players when it actually is not.

[Visch]

If casual players can ask for so much though, why can't the more hardcore players ask for a bit as well?
If you want equality, both parties need to be heard. Everyone has their requests, and to rob us of our challenge is no more right than us demanding the game be harder altogether, so why not keep the majority of the game accessible, and give the more hardcore players some content to keep them busy, and happy as well?
Its a fair trade if you really really think about it..

Well, "fair" would put them on the "losing" side. Again it's all selfishness.

Whether it's a poor personal experience in XI or just complete lack of understanding there seems to be no way to get anyone who considers them self "casual" to acknowledge that XI struck a balance and was able to keep the same 500k player base happy for a long, long time.

What has happened to players in the past 8 years? Is the need for instant gratification that bad that we have to have "NMs" (it makes me sick to my stomach to even call them that) that not only respawn near instantly, but give you some random piece of equipment to make you happy that it didn't drop it's good item? Seriously what has happened? It's embarrassing.

And yes I realize these NMs only drop "lower" level items and are just for fun. But the point is that it sets a precedent for future content. Is this what people really want?

Just look at what they did to the "NMs" that were released in December... Something that people almost considered "challenging" (not really seeing as it was possible to solo/duo/trio most of them AND they were always up) has been reduced to a joke. If FFXIV is going to follow the path of WoW (releasing content that is decently hard, then 2 months later making it super easy so everyone can do it) then there is no point in playing for anyone who wants to feel any sense of achievement. And if there is no sense of achievement then why anyone would to continue logging on much less pay monthly is beyond me.

Is catering to that percent of the player population worth alienating the other percent of the population that isnt hardcore?

Yes because they are the people playing the game the most.

I gave a solution that wouldnt make SE have to devote more than 10% of their fighting developement to hardcore but with the solution hardcores could attain gear that was better than the softcore version but casuals who are skilled would have access to the hardcore gear as long as they had the skill to do the fights whats wrong with this solution? Isnt it a win / win / win solution for casuals/hardcores/SE?

I don't even understand this. Why does everything have to be separated?

Why is it so hard to just have everything balanced like it was later in XI? Take for example ToAU.

It had Nyzul isle and assaults which were something nearly anyone max level could do. It was fun, instanced, and gave decent rewards for everyone. They also offered alternative equipment to pieces previously introduced that were much harder to obtain.

A lot of normal NMs with some interesting gear. Some popped with farmed items.

Salvage which was a much harder instance which gave some of the best gear in the game and required heavy commitment and resources along with skill.

The 3 ToAU "King" HNMs (as I like to call them) Hydra, Cerb, and Khim. Which offered... well disputably awesome rewards for a lot of both commitment and luck.

ZNMs which gave decent rewards and challenge at lower tiers all the way to PW which was basically one step below AV with "game changing" equipment but at an insane difficulty.

Einherjar which offered older HNM drop as rare chance items along with a point system that ensured everyone got some kind of useful reward for their work.

It had a ton of options for everyone in just one expansion.

I'm fine with content open to both parties, but in the end, the skill plain of the casual players and the hardcore players will be vastly different in most, MOST cases, and as such, the content might feel closed off to the casual players when it actually is not.

This about sums it up man.

Honestly I just want to hear something from any dev or anyone from SE saying that things will be harder or anywhere near close to how they were in XI. Not now, not just like XI. Just something.

[Pangy]

in ffxi ppl rand end game Ls's and in reality Harcore are a minority. aka there are not a ton of them. When i looked to join a end game LS to do "harcore events" there was no room since they already had set groups. the 2 i did join after a few mnths in looking disbanded over loot drama.

I just got skrwed out of content in ffxi since a small % of ppl had acess to it so finding event linkshells with room was always a pain.

I got skrewed over in ffxi when it came to content. I don;t want that to happen in ffxiv also.
...
...If you have any % of limiting content (like in ffxi) ppl will end up quiting because they pay for a game to play 100% of that game. And if they can't why bother.

if you guys don't see that then please go look @ ffxi. I missed out on content because I didn't get into a group. Everyone elses group in my time of play was full.

So why limit players when it will just end up skrewing alot of people over.

I played ffxi as a "casual" and "hardcore" content was very limiting for someone with 2 hours to play.
And this limit was after I bought the game.

I just do not want to be left out of content because of not enough players, which was my biggest pet peeve of ffxi. I had time to do content. The only reason I couldn't was groups were full. I only got to do a lil bit of dynamis (till shell broke over drama) and lil bit of sky (till shell broke over drama)

And to be clear I never caused any of my LS drama my sky LS had NA and EU players and a ffxi revolutionary war happen in my LS a british player tried to take over the shell and force the leader to quit by making it so no one could do sky when he got on.

ya and even hardcore get screwed over since there will not be ebough people to form groups for every hardcore.
big issue in ffxi btw.

so i did only about 20% of ffxi. and missed a good 80% even with 12-20 hrs of play time. That is what happens when you limit players. Less of them can join.

Thays how ffxi was like and i only saw 20% of the game with 12-20 hour game play sessions. I just had no group cuz everyone else was full.

I didn't want you to think I was attacking/persecuting/assaulting you without having read your posts in this thread. I have read them all. I hope you're reading this line, and won't make your reply before reading my post.


I'm sorry you had some bad experiences in XI. Genuinely, I am. I can only speak for my own server, where groups were being formed constantly, in LS's, /shouts, small groups of friends, and the whole community was generally quite helpful and supportive. If this was not your experience, that's really unfortunate.


That said, FFXI have their own official forums HERE. XI's developers are actively seeking input about their game from their community, much the same way XIV developers do. It is not necessary to draw comparisons between these games in every third sentence.


I'm also sorry that you're upset by false assumptions, but seeing as you're waiting for the PS3 launch to play the game (for the first time?), is not everything you say about XIV an assumption/estimation/speculation on your part? I'm not attacking you here, I'm asking. If my tone is not appropriately conveying this, please believe that my intention is peaceful here.




I'm a little concerned (more than a little, truthfully) that these threads are what seems to be this game's community.

If XIV's developers release information tomorrow indicating that there will be some amount of content which many of you consider exclusive, inaccessible to XYZ, will you up and quit? If you're not currently playing, would an announcement like that cancel your plans to buy and/or subscribe to the game?
Would you make a thread like this one?
Does anyone think any of those decisions are helpful or constructive to the community in any way?


It can't be news to anyone that the development of this game is ultimately up to the developers. Maybe they'll read a post in this thread, take from it the grandest of inspirations, and completely alter their vision for the entire game. Or maybe they'll continue to follow the vision they've been fulfilling for the past bunch of months.



It's not ridiculous or inappropriate to get upset or impassioned over these things; the community (I hope) cares about the state of things. But the insulting, inflammatory and negative comments/retorts help nothing.

They don't help the developers retrieve information any faster.
They don't help other players see things your way. Would you be converted to someone's way of thinking who called you weakminded/assumptive/fake/stupid as they tried to appeal to you?

Repeating yourself several times over between anyone else's posts does not make you more right, more convincing, more persuasive, and it does not spread your opinion any better than a single, well thought out post would. The user names associated with every post on these forums are very much visible, they can be searched for, and avoided.


I'm going to bed, but I wanted to get that off my chest. If you can't help but insult me in response, I can live with that. If it's just going to be the same 3-4 repeating lines that can be seen all throughout this entire thread, I look forward to not reading your seven consecutive posts about non-issues and other games.

[Eekiki]

I <3 you Pangy. I've been saying this to Kilta for WEEKS.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

ok let me put in words you will understand

you guys are selfish
there that better?

you guys take the game to seriously
how about that?

you ponly care fore yourself and not the betterment of the player base as a whole

I hope that is crystal clear

also just because a person mentions a past experince don;t mean jack
they do not want history to repeat itself

and no the 500K player base did dip when WoW game out servers went from 4K down to 700 at all times of day. Thos meant not a not of players playing and ffxi wasn't balanced. alot of content was unaccessable. If it was there woulda been more players doing endgame. there wasn't. So even players woth time to play still couldn't content or end game as there wasn';t anyone willing to do it outide of the already full groups

not to mention ffxi is going thru a second merge.. with in 2 years.
the prob with ffxi is it did not have a cobstent influx of players.

So again, I want to be able to do content also and that is way we need to let more players do it.