Job Individuality/Pride/Dedication

[Crevox]

Or because they butcherd black magic to the point of mindless playability...... O a single target - Thunder. O 3 targets - Fire. /drool z z z z z

Thaumaturge is black magic so I don't know what relevance this holds to my post.

They already said they're adding new spells, which hopefully will mix up the rotation.

[Reika]

Thaumaturge is black magic so I don't know what relevance this holds to my post.

They already said they're adding new spells, which hopefully will mix up the rotation.

Well then same for THM, i just didnt bold that part because it didnt match the 'didnt want to play it'.

And sure they are adding new/old spells in ARR, but that doesnt erase the fact that they butchered the 1.0 Black mage needlessly.

[Corleone]

I would bet all my gil that if there was no power leveling and it was still a challenge to reach 50 on a job then you (OP) wouldn't feel the way you do about your job and its uniqueness because there would be tons of players who still only had a few capped battle classes. If I did the math right, which I probably didn't - it took me 4 months to get my first 50, so on that pace with no breaks from the game I would still only be 6/7 on battle classes TODAY. Instead, across 2 characters I have a total of 9 battle classes capped and that's with taking breaks from FF to play Rift, SWTOR, Tera, TSW and GW2. As I've said before, Power Leveling and the massive increase in EXP gains that were patched (I know PL wasn't purposely added -- or was it? *conspiracy theory* :O ) into the game destroyed a lot of what the original armory system gave us.

EDIT: To be more clear on my point, I think the problem isn't that anyone can be your class too... I think its that its way too easy for anyone get your class to 50 as well.

[Aerenvel]

1. Most of recent energy has been focused on ARR
2. They are implementing dyes so you can make your char more unique
3. AF armor isnt end all be all gear which you seem to confuse it with and REAL AF gear takes time to get and you know the devot class.
4. AS time goes by and more and more content is released that focus will be magnifed.
5. Play with nicer people build relationships with those around you or an mmo can be a lonely game.
6. Cant compare 11 and 14 really two different beasts ofc lvl99 vs lvl50 content margine is obviously different. 10yr/improved on vs 2/remaded so not even a full 2 yet.
7. Be excited for ARR sure its full of more suprises then you know.

[Felis]

Whilst I'm 100% for being able to do everything one character, (Having one character through everything makes you so much more attached to them) I think there should be limitations on switching jobs and classes. In XI you had to go back to your mog house to change, so generally you would stick to one job for an event.

I would like a similar system here tbh. Maybe only be able to change at crystals?

Or SE can limit class change for instanced events like in Hamlet.
During hamlet you can't switch the weapon, different or same type.

[IronSoup]

I'm 50-50 on this issue. I understand the "swapping during dungeons" being an issue for most people (I think jobs should be locked at start) but I have to disagree on the pride/dedication. In FFXIV, it is fairly easy to be good in any jobs it has to offer compared to FFXI where you needed skills to be able to simply play the job correctly. Even mastering a job is easier than it was in FFXI. Based on that and being an old FFXI player, I have a hard time feeling proud or using the word dedication to master a job since I put more time and efforts doing the same in FFXI.

Also, the "jobs for certain events necessity" was there in FFXI also. RDM needed DRK sub to do a certain Dynamis (Chainspell+Stun), every DDs doing Nyzul needed to have NIN subs... Basically, it was the same. As for the random parties, they'll most certainly want to do "the" strategy because everyone knows it and it works best. Trying a new strategy with random people isn't really the best way to cimplete a dungeon. Trying new strategies should be done with a group of people you know.

Unless they completely change the gameplay, I don't think I'll ever feel the same pride in my main job as I did in FFXI or need to dedicate myself to a single job to master it. The level of effort needed is lower so the feeling of accomplishment is also lower.

[Crevox]

EDIT: To be more clear on my point, I think the problem isn't that anyone can be your class too... I think its that its way too easy for anyone get your class to 50 as well.

Class switching being so easy is a problem, but your point is true as well.

2. They are implementing dyes so you can make your char more unique

I don't care about how I look. ;p Cool new armor is cool, but it's not the issue here.

3. AF armor isnt end all be all gear which you seem to confuse it with and REAL AF gear takes time to get and you know the devot class.

At the moment, it pretty much was. You could get darklight/some alternatives like militia, but depending on your class, most of the time it was the best or VERY CLOSE to the best. I understand 2.0 will be different and I'm hoping it will be to that extent.

5. Play with nicer people build relationships with those around you or an mmo can be a lonely game.

When I needed to do content, I ran with randoms. I had no friends that played the game, and the friends that I made in game already completed everything that I needed to do (sometimes they would help, but most of the time they were busy with their own thing, which I understand).

7. Be excited for ARR sure its full of more suprises then you know.

I am excited, but I am also hoping that my main post is taken as feedback by SE for future design. This discussion has also been interesting.

Even mastering a job is easier than it was in FFXI. Based on that and being an old FFXI player, I have a hard time feeling proud or using the word dedication to master a job since I put more time and efforts doing the same in FFXI.

Unless they completely change the gameplay, I don't think I'll ever feel the same pride in my main job as I did in FFXI or need to dedicate myself to a single job to master it. The level of effort needed is lower so the feeling of accomplishment is also lower.

Exactly, that's the problem.

[IronSoup]

Someone else posted PL to be a problem for dedication and I have to disagree because you never get a real feel of what the job is before you are high level. In FFXI, RDM was introduced to his real nature at lvl. 32 and started his real job at lvl.41... before that, it wasn't really enjoyable. In FFXIV, you don't get your 3rd weaponskills for combos or AoE Flash for GLA before lvl.40... I believe you can't dedicate yourself to a job before you have the right tools. You are dedicated to leveling before 40... that's all. Your dedication to a job comes after that.

[Hulan]

THAT IS THE FAULT OF THE PLAYERBASE. NOT THE DEVS. The devs made full aware of making content viable for all setups. Again, it's not ideal, and it's not gonna be the most efficient way of getting things done, but it's still possible to speed run with most setups. Some of us actually really like this system. So stop playing with bad/closed minded players if that's the case.

I'm still on the fence on the issue at hand, but I'd like to make one thing clear. It is not the dev team's fault that content is prohibitively restrictive, or that players expect their party members to be able to switch to any of 5 classes on the fly. It is, however, their responsibility.

Making a game is hard work; really, really hard work. A lot of things can fall through the cracks and be forgotten or lack polish. I am often the first to give developers a long leash for these types of things. But we cannot forget that this is their game. If there is a problem, something that is causing many players to feel antagonized, that is their responsibility, and they should be held accountable for it.

[ejiboo]

the armory system is something i was very intrigued with and i wish they would've polished and improved it rather than clearly doing away with it without actually taking it out of the game. i think it's pretty awesome that i can change to whatever i want, i mean... i've been through the ropes and learned these skills and become a master with this weapon so why can't i just whip it out and start doing work? it's totally realistic and just adds a nice element to the game. you shouldn't be mad at the armory system for the bad design of XIV 1.0's dungeons (and actual classes/jobs).

i want more freedom, not less. i want in-depth stat allocation too!