Job Individuality/Pride/Dedication

[IronSoup]

I'm 50-50 on this issue. I understand the "swapping during dungeons" being an issue for most people (I think jobs should be locked at start) but I have to disagree on the pride/dedication. In FFXIV, it is fairly easy to be good in any jobs it has to offer compared to FFXI where you needed skills to be able to simply play the job correctly. Even mastering a job is easier than it was in FFXI. Based on that and being an old FFXI player, I have a hard time feeling proud or using the word dedication to master a job since I put more time and efforts doing the same in FFXI.

Also, the "jobs for certain events necessity" was there in FFXI also. RDM needed DRK sub to do a certain Dynamis (Chainspell+Stun), every DDs doing Nyzul needed to have NIN subs... Basically, it was the same. As for the random parties, they'll most certainly want to do "the" strategy because everyone knows it and it works best. Trying a new strategy with random people isn't really the best way to cimplete a dungeon. Trying new strategies should be done with a group of people you know.

Unless they completely change the gameplay, I don't think I'll ever feel the same pride in my main job as I did in FFXI or need to dedicate myself to a single job to master it. The level of effort needed is lower so the feeling of accomplishment is also lower.

[Crevox]

EDIT: To be more clear on my point, I think the problem isn't that anyone can be your class too... I think its that its way too easy for anyone get your class to 50 as well.

Class switching being so easy is a problem, but your point is true as well.

2. They are implementing dyes so you can make your char more unique

I don't care about how I look. ;p Cool new armor is cool, but it's not the issue here.

3. AF armor isnt end all be all gear which you seem to confuse it with and REAL AF gear takes time to get and you know the devot class.

At the moment, it pretty much was. You could get darklight/some alternatives like militia, but depending on your class, most of the time it was the best or VERY CLOSE to the best. I understand 2.0 will be different and I'm hoping it will be to that extent.

5. Play with nicer people build relationships with those around you or an mmo can be a lonely game.

When I needed to do content, I ran with randoms. I had no friends that played the game, and the friends that I made in game already completed everything that I needed to do (sometimes they would help, but most of the time they were busy with their own thing, which I understand).

7. Be excited for ARR sure its full of more suprises then you know.

I am excited, but I am also hoping that my main post is taken as feedback by SE for future design. This discussion has also been interesting.

Even mastering a job is easier than it was in FFXI. Based on that and being an old FFXI player, I have a hard time feeling proud or using the word dedication to master a job since I put more time and efforts doing the same in FFXI.

Unless they completely change the gameplay, I don't think I'll ever feel the same pride in my main job as I did in FFXI or need to dedicate myself to a single job to master it. The level of effort needed is lower so the feeling of accomplishment is also lower.

Exactly, that's the problem.

[IronSoup]

Someone else posted PL to be a problem for dedication and I have to disagree because you never get a real feel of what the job is before you are high level. In FFXI, RDM was introduced to his real nature at lvl. 32 and started his real job at lvl.41... before that, it wasn't really enjoyable. In FFXIV, you don't get your 3rd weaponskills for combos or AoE Flash for GLA before lvl.40... I believe you can't dedicate yourself to a job before you have the right tools. You are dedicated to leveling before 40... that's all. Your dedication to a job comes after that.

[Arcell]

At the moment, it pretty much was. You could get darklight/some alternatives like militia, but depending on your class, most of the time it was the best or VERY CLOSE to the best. I understand 2.0 will be different and I'm hoping it will be to that extent.

Lol, dude you have no idea what you're talking about. A select few pieces of AF are good, the rest of it is pretty much garbage. Melds and drops (militia/darklight) outclass most pieces. With the exception of WHM, no one should be wearing full AF. This may change in 2.0 but AF was nowhere near the best. It was the bare minimum.

Like I've been saying, and you haven't addressed, if you truly want to be dedicated to your class/job then you'll be way better than any schmuck of the street who leveled it for fun. If you're truly dedicated you'll have better armor, better weapons and far better knowledge. Take two BLMs, one in full AF and one with double/triple melds and a relic. Who would you say just going by gear is more dedicated? Not always "better" but they at least took the time to gear it up.

[Aerenvel]

Class switching being so easy is a problem, but your point is true as well.



I don't care about how I look. ;p Cool new armor is cool, but it's not the issue here.



At the moment, it pretty much was. You could get darklight/some alternatives like militia, but depending on your class, most of the time it was the best or VERY CLOSE to the best. I understand 2.0 will be different and I'm hoping it will be to that extent.



When I needed to do content, I ran with randoms. I had no friends that played the game, and the friends that I made in game already completed everything that I needed to do (sometimes they would help, but most of the time they were busy with their own thing, which I understand).



I am excited, but I am also hoping that my main post is taken as feedback by SE for future design. This discussion has also been interesting.



Exactly, that's the problem.

Well you forgot 4. which is pretty much the main point you compare apples to limes, the problem with the system you say for you is, "It is to easy to switch jobs Looking from a negative stand point that looks bad but it allows others to fill roles that you may be lacking and or trying new strats on new content on the fly, without running b to their house very encumbersome.
3 AF gear is obviously not end all be all gear, take a pld for example you want a 6k hp pld with materia gear or and pld with af gear and not even a materia slot. Another obvious diff in dedication.
4 back to number 4 like i said before I played 11 when it first came out and let me tell you if you started in abby you do not understand the difference how you couldnt even lvl without a party. PLD dont even mean anything now where as in the begining they were gods auto tells on login.
All the things you complain about are due to you having an overabundance of time and developers not putting enough content at your whim. but there has to be a foundation then improved upon they are trying to do both.
With Level Sync they can do away with PL if they really wanted too. so for every complaint there are variables upon variables so i would advise suggestions that actually have a basis constructive critisim vs just out right complaining

[ejiboo]

the armory system is something i was very intrigued with and i wish they would've polished and improved it rather than clearly doing away with it without actually taking it out of the game. i think it's pretty awesome that i can change to whatever i want, i mean... i've been through the ropes and learned these skills and become a master with this weapon so why can't i just whip it out and start doing work? it's totally realistic and just adds a nice element to the game. you shouldn't be mad at the armory system for the bad design of XIV 1.0's dungeons (and actual classes/jobs).

i want more freedom, not less. i want in-depth stat allocation too!

[Crevox]

Lol, dude you have no idea what you're talking about. A select few pieces of AF are good, the rest of it is pretty much garbage. Melds and drops (militia/darklight) outclass most pieces. With the exception of WHM, no one should be wearing full AF. This may change in 2.0 but AF was nowhere near the best. It was the bare minimum.

I played a White Mage. That should answer this.

Like I've been saying, and you haven't addressed, if you truly want to be dedicated to your class/job then you'll be way better than any schmuck of the street who leveled it for fun. If you're truly dedicated you'll have better armor, better weapons and far better knowledge. Take two BLMs, one in full AF and one with double/triple melds and a relic. Who would you say just going by gear is more dedicated? Not always "better" but they at least took the time to gear it up.

This is true, but still doesn't take much effort. A relic is important, yeah, but double/triple melds just takes some gil; not time and effort. Yes, I understand it still shows dedication, and that's true, but still not enough. In my opinion, there needs to be more things you can do to invest time in the class to show you care about it.

4. AS time goes by and more and more content is released that focus will be magnifed.

This is true, but it just depends on how they do gear advancement. Is it just a linear increase? Can you "skip ahead" to the better gear, or do you need the previous to complete the new content? Also, even if you're playing a warrior in a 2.0 dungeon, how easy is it gonna be for you to grab gear for your alternate jobs? Most of the time, you don't even have to play that job and you end up gearing it just because "hey look I got an garuda bow, now my archer is pro." That's not dedication to archer at all, you just happened to grab a bow playing a different class. If you were forced to play archer in order to get archer equipment, and some archer guy had TONS of great archer gear... now that's dedication.

[Crevox]

Also, the new battle system is supposed to rewards skillful play. This could end up in a "suboptimal" job dealing more damage as the "optimal" one simply because the player is more proficient with the "suboptimal" one.

I hope so, but if that's the case players need to learn to lighten up on the class restrictions when filling their parties.

[Crevox]

This thread is wanting to abolish the system,

Who said that? This thread states that the system is a problem. Fixes can be made, and changes can be made. I don't really have any suggestions at the moment as to what changes or fixes would resolve the issues that exist, but there are definitely issues.

Speculating what COULD be done is a good topic of discussion.

[Ruisu]

Who said that? This thread states that the system is a problem. Fixes can be made, and changes can be made. I don't really have any suggestions at the moment as to what changes or fixes would resolve the issues that exist, but there are definitely issues.

Speculating what COULD be done is a good topic of discussion.

Your complaint is that you do not like that someone can switch to being a 50 Dragoon by switching their weapon. How is that not wanting to abolish the system?