Why do we have classes AND jobs again?

[Imoen]

I know everyone hated that, but it seems to me the answer was to make MORE abilities so people had more viable choices. People chose those because they were the best to have for lack of great alternatives. If the skill situation was more diverse and the time was take to make sure that a certain set of skills was not THAT much better than others, it could have been addressed.

People would just end up gravitating at certain builds even with more options, this has been proven time and time again in many other games, not to mention balancing would be a nightmare trying to figure out all the different possible combinations you could have on each class/job, with an even wider selection of exploitation.

You're essentially saying you want to make your own job/class with this kind of set up, which sounds great on paper. The solution you presented, "time was take to make sure that a certain set of skills was not THAT much better than others" just kind of ends up turning into either nerfing and buffing skills until the end of time.

[NoloeTazier]

easy just make somethings in game class only.

Just because they can, doesn't mean they should. People don't want to carry around or have to purchase Class only gear so they can go into Class only content, when 99% of the content they do do, they are on Jobs.

[Imoen]

I said this in another topic, but they could do it by implementing class quest-chains like how they did with jobs. Quests at level 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, which give class-only abilities, with levels 30, 35 and 40 abilities become cross-classeable. Case in point, at lvl 30, GLA can do its class quest and obtain Red Lotus as an ability. Meanwhile, keep classes as diverse as it is by keeping the 10 cross-classeable ability option. Implement abilities that benefit in solo/light party situations, and give unique traits that jobs will be unable to obtain, such as TP move for mages.

They could do so much with the armoury system its unbelievable, but people don't like to think about the possibilities it seems...

Then the number of abilities on class vs job would be a different number and people would get upset about that. I understand what you're saying though.

[whoopeeragon]

Not really. Honestly, in a situation like that it seems like an error on the part of skill/ability balancing. The challange is to design an environment where various ability combinations all have viable use.

But I am also a fan of letting people be a little overpowered at times. There is accomplishment in discovering a combo that makes you a bad-a**

Problem is you can't have everything for nothing. The armoury system and job system have their own strengths and weaknesses. They're not meant to BLEND together to form one system that can take from both, which is what you're asking.

Armoury system - greater ability to choose what skills you want on your class, diverse options to shape your class as you want, but lose any true specialised form of a role. Meaning solo/light party works well, but tough battles with a specialised focus is not ideal for classes.

Job system - greater effects of specialisation, but lower diverse skills to actively use to complement the specialisation. Meaning in situations where your specialisation is countered or rendered null, your job is useless.

without traits from the class your using that skill from those skills are only partially effective or completely useless. armory system has no strength it was/is a terrible idea that will only serve to limit distinction and versatility.

Umm...the traits only beef up those skills. The skills serve fine - Sentinel, Sanguine Rite, Blood for Blood, Second Wind, Cure, Protect, Stoneskin, Quelling Strike, Raging Strike, Leg Sweep, Resonance...you can't mean to tell me that without traits, every single one of them is useless? Sure, Conjurer's traits means that Cure and Protect and Stoneskin are much potent, but how are they not effective on other classes? Cure heals your HP. Protect gives boost to defence. Stoneskins increases your HP gauge behind the scenes. How is that useless?

Armoury system is the DEFINITION of versatility. Just because a skill isn't as potent on the other classes doesn't mean they can't be put on. Job system is the OPPOSITE of versatility. You don't even have the CHOICE to put on so many abilities as the armoury system does.

They could do so much more too... like.. Ionno.. let Gladiators equip more than just swords... like... gladitors do...?

Oh, in regards to weapons, that's a massive flaw by locking weapon type to classes and jobs. But I was more in terms of abilities, content and actual usage in battle that I said about potential.

[indira]

Just because they can, doesn't mean they should. People don't want to carry around or have to purchase Class only gear so they can go into Class only content, when 99% of the content they do do, they are on Jobs.

thats an excuse people carry around everything anyways and gear sets wont use up inventory in ARR.

[whoopeeragon]

Then the number of abilities on class vs job would be a different number and people would get upset about that. I understand what you're saying though.

I don't see a problem with different numbers of abilities though. In fact, that was a flaw I see in the current balancing - the armoury system should have more abilities to use rather than the job system. Jobs are specialised - they aren't meant to have as many access to as many abilities as classes. Classes should therefore have more abilities to use, so that feature is something I'm actually for, having classes have a higher number of abilities and skills.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems some of you aren't willing to step out of the comfort zone of using jobs to trying out using classes more often. Is it the community mentality of being scared of the unknown which is ultimately doing this? Much like how no-one is willing to experiment outside of cookie-cutter set ups for content, even if they may be better. (this isn't directed at you, Imoen, but the general community)

[Imoen]

thats an excuse people carry around everything anyways and gear sets wont use up inventory in ARR.

If we get more than one gear set for class and job then win, if not lame. "Example if I have ... warrior damage set and enmity set then my marauder lets say has 2 situational sets as well, that's 4 gear sets."

[Valmonte]

Two things to consider...

1) Reflect upon the subjob system in XI. Now imagine XI with only the 6 starting jobs.
What's the point? Most people are going to use the same sub anyway right?
Now reflect on how it works with 20+ jobs.
FFXIV only has 7 disciplines. The more disciplines, the more sense the current system makes.

2) FFV. Main jobs and sub jobs. More similar to XI than XIV, because XIV has pre-set sub jobs.
However, there's also the "Bare" job. Essentially, can equip ANYTHING, and you choose which abilities to use.
In 14, that's kind of like being choosing between GLA or PUG, depending on which weapon you want to use,
Then the freedom to create your own custom character with whatever abilities you've learned elsewhere.

It makes sense to me. Hopefully this offers a different perception.

Subjobs are used to get traits and ability's from the job. XiV only lets you set specific skills that are severely limited when used on another class.

[indira]

Subjobs are used to get traits and ability's from the job. XiV only lets you set specific skills that are severely limited when used on another class.

one reason we need one class = one job.
some people want it to fork out, then your left with 2 jobs that are the same.
there was already a post with
gla -> pld
gla ->drk not a good idea.

If we get more than one gear set for class and job then win, if not lame. "Example if I have ... warrior damage set and enmity set then my marauder lets say has 2 situational sets as well, that's 4 gear sets."

you might need some new sets since the jobs will be different in ARR.

[NoloeTazier]

thats an excuse people carry around everything anyways and gear sets wont use up inventory in ARR.

Depends on if there's a limit of gear sets. Even then like I said, you have to purchase the Class gear. That's even more gear for people to purchase and meld. People complain about gearing 2 jobs, let alone gearing those 2 jobs then even 1 Class. Sure they may allow Class/Job gear, but the 'best' Class gear will be Class only, just like the 'best' Job gear is Job only.